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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    My take? It means the tests are not very rigorous and complete (which this one isn't), and/or that we don't understand completely what functions a person uses, and why (which is true too). This test could be poor and you are really Ni/Te/Fi. Or you could be an INTJ that prefers to use Ni/Ti/Ne/Te/Fi, which I would write like this:

    Ni/Te/Fi
    Ne/Ti/Fe

    I just commented about all this stuff here. I don't know much, but I am fascinated by functions and how very little we know about how we use them. Question for you: When you test INTJ, do you test strongly/moderately/weakly on the N/S and T/F divides? What are your percentages? I would guess you test strongly N and T based on your function results, but I'm intrigued to know if I'm right.........
    Fascinating post you had there. I especially liked this part:

    It would be in our best interests, therefore, to combine our efforts and develop some methodology for assessing a person's cognitive functions. From there, qualitative studies could be performed, and from there more quantitative studies would follow. Then, finally, some more rigorous and true archetypes could be (re)defined, and personality type more positively used as a tool for interaction among individuals and societies

    Solitary Walker and Lenore Thompson's type profiles seem to be head and shoulders above the other ones that I've seen in the past and it is only recently, since joining this forum, that I've discovered them. The shadow functions are still a bit of a mystery to me though.

    With regards to whether I'm a slight/moderate/strong preferences, it has changed over the years. When I first took one of these assessments about 14 years ago, it came out as strong I and T with moderate N and J preferences. The qualitative conclusion in my notes from that time was INTJ with some "SP influence". Then later, N got to be much stronger and J got stronger as well. The assessments always come out the same (INTJ) but the strength of preferences is moderating. The last one I took is the step 2 here.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1035132

    All came out moderate with two of the 20 facets "out of preference".

    (That was a fun thread BTW to see Solitary Waker, the ultimate intellectual theorist/purist, and EdCoaching, the ultimate pragmatic applier of the theory, go back and forth - felt like Clash of the Titans)

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  2. #12
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    As, I suspected, I is an ENFP!

    Don't mean to *over analyze* you SS, but doing some quick ordering here for comparative purposes:

    (Ne) Dominant (50.9) excellent use
    (Fi) Auxiliary (49.9) excellent use
    (Ni) Shadow (34.5) good use
    (Fe) Shadow (33.4) good use
    (Se) Shadow (29.2) average use
    (Ti) Shadow (21.2) limited use
    (Te) Tertiary (10.8) unused
    (Si) Inferior (10.7) unused

    Here 3 of 4 shadow functions are "good use" or "average use" and all shadow functions are higher than tertiary or inferior. In this case though Dominant and Auxiliary are ranked #1 and #2.

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  3. #13
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    Don't mean to *over analyze* you SS, but doing some quick ordering here for comparative purposes:

    (Ne) Dominant (50.9) excellent use
    (Fi) Auxiliary (49.9) excellent use
    (Ni) Shadow (34.5) good use
    (Fe) Shadow (33.4) good use
    (Se) Shadow (29.2) average use
    (Ti) Shadow (21.2) limited use
    (Te) Tertiary (10.8) unused
    (Si) Inferior (10.7) unused

    Here 3 of 4 shadow functions are "good use" or "average use" and all shadow functions are higher than tertiary or inferior. In this case though Dominant and Auxiliary are ranked #1 and #2.
    Sorry, I don't speak typologese, could you explain this to me, in dummy terms, please!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  4. #14
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    All I see when I read my scores was that I am both very much so an Intuitive and a Feeler.



    Which, I definitely know I am.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #15
    garbage
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    Every available excuse to take an online test

    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *************************************** (39.3)
    excellent use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************* (37.6)
    excellent use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************* (37.3)
    excellent use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************* (33.3)
    good use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ****************************** (30.3)
    good use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.2)
    average use
    extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************* (25.3)
    average use
    introverted Sensing (Si) ******* (7.9)
    unused

    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: ENFP

  6. #16
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i took the one elaur posted earlier

    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    All I see when I read my scores was that I am both very much so an Intuitive and a Feeler.



    Which, I definitely know I am.
    Well you have definitely caught the most important point.

    First, there are introverted and extraverted sides for each of the 4 letters N, T, S, and F so that actually gives us 8 functions to select from.

    Assumption - This assessment is correct

    we prefer one of each pair over the other. I'm skipping this step, but you also get an ordering of those 4 and 8 functions from the assessment results. For you, preferences are bolded:

    Ni vs Ne Dominant
    Fi vs Fe Auiliary
    Ti vs Te Tertiary
    Si vs Se Inferior

    So, your function order of your type is Ne, Fi, Te, Si. Ne is your strongest - maybe thought of as the general, which helps you to perceive, and you perceive a lot as a dominant perceiver. Fi is the general's aide, which helps you to decide. Te is tertiary, which is not so developed but which gets more developed as life goes on. Inferior grows a little and you begin to enjoy it more later in life but it remains the runt of the litter. It can't do what the rest of the dogs do. Sometimes, it pees on the rug.

    The question that comes up is what happens with all those shadow functions? How do they relate to all of this? That's the part I don't understand. Based on your and my results, it would appear that the shadow functions get a fair bit of use and we have some comfort using most of them. That's a bit perplexing because MBTI is really about the 4 and not much is written about the shadow functions. They all look important since you have good to average use of most of them (certainly more than tertiary or auxiliary).[/I] For me, I have higher use of two shadow functions than my auxiliary (general's aide) which really makes no sense to me.

    So what I'm trying to figure out is where the shadow functions fit and what they mean and why they are not discussed as much. Thompson has some stuff in her book but I'm not sure if or how it works the way she describes.

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  8. #18
    Senior Member paradox fox's Avatar
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    INFP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Shadow functions
    Later personality researchers (notably Linda V. Berens)[22] added four additional functions to the descending hierarchy, the so-called "shadow" functions to which the individual is not naturally inclined but which can emerge when the person is under stress. For INFP, these shadow functions are (in order):

    Extraverted Feeling (Fe): Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subjects own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.[23]
    Introverted Intuition (Ni): Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths.[24]
    Extraverted Sensing (Se): Extraverted sensing focuses on the experiences and sensations of the immediate, physical world. With an acute awareness of the present surroundings, it brings relevant facts and details to the forefront and may lead to spontaneous action.[25]
    Introverted Thinking (Ti): Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[26]"

    Myers-Briggs Type Indicator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Looking at the diametrically opposite four-letter type, INFP:

    Extraverted function is a perceiving function (S-N) because of the P preference
    Introverted function is dominant because of the I preference
    Dominant function is therefore introverted feeling (Fi)
    Auxiliary function is extraverted intuition (Ne)
    Tertiary function is the opposite of the Auxiliary: sensing
    Inferior function is the opposite of the Dominant: extraverted thinking (Te)
    The dynamics of the INFP rest on the fundamental correspondence of introverted feeling and extraverted intuition. The dominant tendency of the INFP is toward building a rich internal framework of values and toward championing human rights. They often devote themselves behind the scenes to causes such as civil rights or saving the environment. Since they tend to avoid the limelight, postpone decisions, and maintain a reserved posture, they are rarely found in executive-director type positions of the organizations that serve those causes. Normally, the INFP dislikes being "in charge" of things. When not under stress, the INFP radiates a pleasant and sympathetic demeanor; but under extreme stress, they can suddenly become rigid and directive, exerting their extraverted thinking erratically."

    If the shadow functions only surfaced under stress, wouldn't they all be as erratic and annoying as my Te is? I rather like using my shadow functions. Se is pretty fun, Fe helps me to not stomp all over people, Ti is important to my writing and conflict mediating, and I get Ni thoughts quite a bit (mini-premonitions, like oh crap, something really bad is about to happen, I gotta stop this trainwreck before it happens), but I don't have as much control over it as the others. The description of my Te is pretty spot on.

    I think the difference is I use the shadow functions individually and not necessarily in conjuntion with the others, unlike my "default" INFP functions.
    Just because I'm an INFP doesn't mean I'm emo!

  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    But the thing is, all of those descriptions you mentioned might not be true "function use". Like Se being "fun", and the descriptions based on Berens/Nardi (which this test is based on). I'm finding more and more than their descriptions are good to give a basic idea of the functions, but if you take them as definitive behavior, then we end up with a giant Forer effect where everyone can claim to "use" all the functions the same amount.
    So a better way to look at it, as was brought out recently, is that of "perspective". The INFP's preferred perspective is one of internal valuation. This could still leda to helping you "to not stomp all over people", without necessarily "using Fe".

    Also, the description where the inferior is the one that comes out under "extreme" stress (and thus seems worse than the shadows) is based on the old four function theory (which Wikipedia originally reflected; Berens' cpncepts were added in more recently), particularly from sites such as Team technology.
    In Beebe's essays explaining how he developed his model, you see where he began identifying certain behaviors as an overdominating Ne neglecting inferior Si, and later realized that these were actually the shadows (such as "destructive" 8th place Se), being eclipsed by the primary functions. So I wonder if that "Te" you mention might actually be a "destructive" Ti. That will certaiinly become rigid and perhaps even directive. Since it shadows Te, they may both be involved, or the line between them might blur.

    Also, since the shadows are unconscious, and the inferior is likely the least preferred of the conscious functions, then that would explain why you would think Te is "worse" than the shadows. Yo're not really concsious of them, though you may engage in behaviors associated with them, and this be reflected by the test (which again, might not always be actual "use" of the functions).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  10. #20
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    One of the coolest things to do with all this is get people in the room all using the same function--and see what happens. For example when we do type and spirituality workshops, we make everyone go and do an Si exercise: Go outside, find something that attracts your attention as something in creation that seems spiritual to you, and study it for 5 minutes, writing about it. No analogies. No metaphors. Stay with what is.

    We let the N's report first (doesn't matter if they're Ne or Ni). They think the exercise was a waste of time. What can you do with a flower or a rock or even a lake if you can only write facts. Boring. Those who have S as a tertiary function don't do a whole lot better. When it's the auxiliary function their experiences get richer. Then the S's report, and the rest of the room falls out of their chairs at the richness of their writings (did you know that dandilions turn toward the sun??? I especially like it when professional clergy fall out of their chairs
    edcoaching

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