Why does Ti always go with Fe and Fi with Te?

[Poki]

Conservatism? Patriotism?

Hell, why not just say that LOVE is particular to one single judging function, and now we get to argue about which one is "real" love and the other is fake?

There's a bunch of assumptions being made, here, without recourse to first principles.

In an effort to get things back on track, what is the typical "style" of Fi/Te, and what is the "style" of Ti/Fe? Forget specific values, forget the emotional and prejudiced baggage we want to attach. How do they "work", such that one might regard INTJ as similar to INFP, and INFJ as similar to INTP (and so on)?

LOVE is particular to Fi. My Fi would be the equivalent to others Ti where my Fi tends to process in the background as opposed to the foreground. My Ti is in the foreground and Fe is driven by logic of what would help in this situation in regards to feelings as opposed to actually internally feeling what the other person feels.

 

[uumlau]

LOVE is particular to Fi.

*waits for the xxFJs to rip poki to shreds*

 

[Poki]

*waits for the xxFJs to rip poki to shreds*

lets see if your Ni is right

 

[VagrantFarce]

LOVE is particular to Fi.

Let's not be stupid now.

 

[uumlau]

lets see if your Ni is right

If not, it just means they have too much class to get involved in the first place.

 

[Poki]

Let's not be stupid now.

When we love someone we can turn it externally, but please tell me how love is not an internal judgement, especially when we can be in love with someone even though all our logic says its stupid.

 

[uumlau]

When we love someone we can turn it externally, but please tell me how love is not an internal judgement, especially when we can be in love with someone even though all our logic says its stupid.

I think that there is "subjective judgment" and it can be turned inwards or outwards. However, it's still YOU doing the "subjective judging" (i.e., feeling love, or whatever).

For an Fi, it comes from the inside. A really good way to connect with someone who is strong in the Fi is to talk about their spirit or heart.

For Fe, it "comes from the outside", but not really. Rather, one's love in the Fe way is triggered by things outside of oneself. One actively cares for others, sometimes to a selfless degree that is not typical of the Fi approach. Others' needs and feelings are foremost in one's own mind, and one's own feelings/priorities are simply one among many.

It's still the same love, though, expressed differently, and perceived differently, Fi vs. Fe.

(Similarly, I find it just as absurd when people say Ti is somehow "more logical" than Te. For both Fi and Ti, it just more internally, subjectively experienced.)

 

[Poki]

I think that there is "subjective judgment" and it can be turned inwards or outwards. However, it's still YOU doing the "subjective judging" (i.e., feeling love, or whatever).

For an Fi, it comes from the inside. A really good way to connect with someone who is strong in the Fi is to talk about their spirit or heart.

For Fe, it "comes from the outside", but not really. Rather, one's love in the Fe way is triggered by things outside of oneself. One actively cares for others, sometimes to a selfless degree that is not typical of the Fi approach. Others' needs and feelings are foremost in one's own mind, and one's own feelings/priorities are simply one among many.

It's still the same love, though, expressed differently, and perceived differently, Fi vs. Fe.

(Similarly, I find it just as absurd when people say Ti is somehow "more logical" than Te. For both Fi and Ti, it just more internally, subjectively experienced.)

I actually think we are on the same page i can percieve in others what your saying so I havnt taken it to that level of Ni.

Fi can also be triggered by things outside when the things outside ring true with their spirit and heart.

From my experience Ti and Te come to a similiar conclusion when they have the same set of data.

 

[VagrantFarce]

When we love someone we can turn it externally, but please tell me how love is not an internal judgement, especially when we can be in love with someone even though all our logic says its stupid.

What's love got to do with such arbitrary categories of thought? I don't think the functions seek to explain what love is.

 

[Poki]

What's love got to do with such arbitrary categories of thought? I don't think Fi or Fe seek to explain what love is.

Its not about reaching an explanation or definition. Its about judging and when we love someone we are truly judging them internally. How we are, what we do, how we respond is all affected by this judgement. Your are judged based on a feeling of love as opposed to a feeling of hate. have you ever had someone not listen to you because they dont like you? They made an internal judgement based on their feeling about you. This is where I think Ne and Se look at things 2 different ways.

 

[VagrantFarce]

Its not about reaching an explanation or definition. Its about judging and when we love someone we are truly judging them internally. How we are, what we do, how we respond is all affected by this judgement. Your are judged based on a feeling of love as opposed to a feeling of hate. have you ever had someone not listen to you because they dont like you? They made an internal judgement based on their feeling about you. This is where I think Ne and Se look at things 2 different ways.

Just because you feel it "inside" doesn't automatically make it just Fi. Do you think that Fe is just proclaiming what you feel out-loud?

Also, I don't understand the "hate" comment - do you think that Fi is just "feeling good"? What's Fe by comparison?

I just can't see how something as mysterious and complex as "love" can be the sole jurisdiction of one arbitrarily-defined thought process.

 

[Poki]

Just because you feel it "inside" doesn't automatically make it just Fi. Do you think that Fe is just proclaiming what you feel out-loud?

Also, I don't understand the "hate" comment - do you think that Fi is just "feeling good"? What's Fe by comparison?

I just can't see how something as mysterious and complex as "love" can be the sole jurisdiction of one arbitrarily-defined thought process.

I actually argue heavily that I think people confuse Fe as just feeling out loud. Fi judges things based off of feelings. This is what drives Fi values. You see it as complicated and mysterious because you complicate love with all the things that are tied to love. I see things one step behind what you see. As opposed to all the things tied to love I see the feeling itself.

Fe is about a social standard of what makes people feel good, what people want in general, what will make them feel bad, etc. Fe is about controlling peoples feelings through the use of Ni or Si and what it knows "people" in general like, dont like, etc. Sometimes its confused with what that Fe user actually wants personally. Fe can honestly get confused between society and itself when it comes to wants because Fe's ego is held high when it makes people happy by providing what they need.

 

[uumlau]

I actually argue heavily that I think people confuse Fe as just feeling out loud. Fi judges things based off of feelings. This is what drives Fi values. You see it as complicated and mysterious because you complicate love with all the things that are tied to love. I see things one step behind what you see. As opposed to all the things tied to love I see the feeling itself.

Fe definitely isn't "feeling out loud." Fi people can easily express feelings via Ne and Se. Their expressions are not their feelings, though, but the effect of their feelings. And sometimes that expression is its own source of joy.

Fe is about a social standard of what makes people feel good, what people want in general, what will make them feel bad, etc. Fe is about controlling peoples feelings through the use of Ni or Si and what it knows "people" in general like, dont like, etc. Sometimes its confused with what that Fe user actually wants personally. Fe can honestly get confused between society and itself when it comes to wants because Fe's ego is held high when it makes people happy by providing what they need.

I think "social standard" and "controlling" puts baggage on Fe that just doesn't belong there. It's one thing to say that a strong Fe is very aware of the social standard and understands its subtleties, and that a strong Fe is quite capable of subtly arranging things (people, events, things out in the real world) so as to achieve a particular effect. It is quite another to say that is Fe's raison d'etre. One can approve or reject the social standard. One can act or refrain from acting upon that of which one is aware.

I think it is best put as "Fe determines the context by which one regards the external world." That context is subjective, emotional, and social, rather than objective, logistical, and factual.

 

[Poki]

Fe definitely isn't "feeling out loud." Fi people can easily express feelings via Ne and Se. Their expressions are not their feelings, though, but the effect of their feelings. And sometimes that expression is its own source of joy.

But if you learn to tie the effect to their feelings then you see the feelings. We all distort reality so we can see. My mom caused this within me(not to judge it, as I appreciate it, just posting a reason). She would tie expressions to feelings. This does cause issues when you cant see that effect which I actually posted this phenomenon in another thread somewhere and is something I am working on. Sometimes it sucks to be Se.

I think "social standard" and "controlling" puts baggage on Fe that just doesn't belong there. It's one thing to say that a strong Fe is very aware of the social standard and understands its subtleties, and that a strong Fe is quite capable of subtly arranging things (people, events, things out in the real world) so as to achieve a particular effect. It is quite another to say that is Fe's raison d'etre. One can approve or reject the social standard. One can act or refrain from acting upon that of which one is aware.

I think it is best put as "Fe determines the context by which one regards the external world." That context is subjective, emotional, and social, rather than objective, logistical, and factual.

I agree 100% that it doesnt belong on that person. But their ego takes it on. I found this to help explain "The child hereby learns that one must dominate in order not to be dominated by others[9]. It then develops its ego, in order to control the world". If Fe is the ego it is gonna be something they take on, they actually become very skilled at it, and its baggage they take on because they know how. I take on the baggage of Ti and trying to understand how to accomplish things. How to get from point A to point B. I willingly take on that baggage where ever I go and in whatever I do. I agree 100% that its something we should be able to let go of, but its a position we put ourself in and others come to rely on that and it feeds the cycle until we learn to let it go.

How an ENFP will say they pout or do things similiar because that is what they are good at and its scary to let go. (please ENTPs do not jump in on this just because it rubs you the wrong way ) People are drawn to them because of their charisma as well and its something they feed off of, something they enjoy, and something they take on, but people will feed off of it and drain them.