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  1. #21
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    OK, I think I get part of the reasoning, here. The main thing is that it's an equation that is true based on an equilibrium condition. When the condition isn't true, then the theory doesn't cover the case.

    Still, I see no satisfactory answer to the OP's question. What is it about Fi/Te and Fe/Ti, as pairs that make them the same or different? In other words, in what way is an INTP like an INFJ, and are they usually similar in these ways? How is an INTJ like an INFP and vice versa? And like the OP, I'm not asking this in terms of MBTI, which is something that none of the respondents to this thread so far seem to get, except maybe the ones who acknowledge they have no answer other than that's how it is. (Using INxx as just a sample template, for familiarity, and because I suspect SJ and SP might get in the way of isolating Te/Ti/Fe/Fi.)

    What is it about humanity that makes these typical arrangements for the human psyche? If I start really focusing on using Ti, will I develop echoes of using Fe? Does Fe just "make more sense" to one using Ti? How and in what ways? Similarly, does using Fe cause Ti to start working in the background, however subtly, and why might we expect that (for reasons other than MBTI theory)?

    I am hoping that my questions evoke answers that are applicable to the OP's question.

  2. #22
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The Dominant function is supposed to be the strongest and most important, according to Jung. And the three below are used less and less.

    You don't get how the Dominant function is stronger than the Inferior function?
    Sure I do. The role of the dominate function is to be the dominate function that all other functions help serve. It gets trickier beyond that. Auxiliary feeds into Dominate, but Tertiary doesn't necessarily feed into Auxiliary in a similar subservient role.

    Anyway, I was more specifically talking about INTPs using more Fi than Fe and INFPs using more Ti than Te. In both cases, we are dealing with inferior vs 8th function (demon, I believe), and both have strong unconscious roles which can screw up empirical testing. Just because Ti scores higher than Te on some 15 minute online self-test, it doesn't mean that the INFP is failing to use both Te and Ti in ways the theory predicts.

  3. #23
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    Possibly because Fi as a protection mechanism tries to use objective logic, only externally judging by whats on the table.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #24
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    They play into each other. Both Ti and Fe correspond to "what is". Both Te and Fi correspond to "what should be".

  5. #25
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    They play into each other. Both Ti and Fe correspond to "what is". Both Te and Fi correspond to "what should be".
    Ever had an Fe-dom come down on you for not doing what you should do or should have done? There can definitely be "should" in Fe, as well.

    Fi is also a lot about harmonizing in the moment as long as there's not some core principle at odds, so not sure it breaks down that neatly.

  6. #26
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Ever had an Fe-dom come down on you for not doing what you should do or should have done? There can definitely be "should" in Fe, as well.
    Yes. It's based on community standards, which are generally objective. They're informing you that these are the standards which are to be complied with, as necessary for the promotion of our society, opposed to Fi, which mandates that something be done simply because it's "right".

  7. #27
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
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    Default Multi-quote blitz

    Another way to phrase the question:

    If Ti and Fe are two halves of a whole, how would you define the Ti/Fe combo as a single unit, without saying "X plus Y"?

    Which Andy pretty much answered already:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I think Fe/Ti are unified because they are both "global" decision making processes. Ti wants to fit everything together into a logical, self consistent whole. ... Fe tries to fit people/things together to see how they fit into the larger social picture. ...

    Fi/Te is "centralised". Decisions are made according to some guiding principal that stands outside other concerns. In the case of Te that principal is completing the objective, whatever that might be. ... For Fi the centralised principal is the persons own feelings/beliefs. Decisions are made in accordance to how they fit into those personal factors.
    And this too:

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    They play into each other. Both Ti and Fe correspond to "what is". Both Te and Fi correspond to "what should be".
    So I'd like to make that a challenge and see anyone else's definitions, if they'd like to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    In other words, in what way is an INTP like an INFJ, and are they usually similar in these ways? How is an INTJ like an INFP and vice versa?
    Good question. If we want to reach out and include Si/Ne/Ni/Se, we can ask: if what ways is an INTP similar to an ESFJ? Like what are called Quadra in Socionics, I think. I've been wanting to start a Quadri (?) discussion, if we can steal that idea from Socionics, because I don't like Socionics...

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Consider if each function existed within a vacuum, without the other function to balance things out:

    • Ti: Assessing everything in terms of logical coherence and first-hand understanding, without ever considering the effect it has on one's social standing.
    • Fi: Assessing everything in terms of the implicit emotional needs it fulfills, without ever considering its objective, quantifiable reliability.
    • Fe: Assessing everything in terms of how it defines a social relationship, without ever considering its logical coherence or what first-hand understanding suggests.
    • Te: Assessing everything in terms of how it reliably and objectively quantifies something, without ever considering its effect on emotional needs.
    This might drive you crazy but I can't resist saying that all I have to do is rearrange your clauses and I have great fuel for function wars. Like this:

    Ti without Te: Assessing everything in terms of logical coherence and first-hand understanding, without ever considering its objective, quantifiable reliability.

    Ti without Fi: Assessing everything in terms of logical coherence and first-hand understanding, without ever considering its effect on emotional needs.

    So, more seriously, what makes Ti without Fe intrinsically worse than Ti without Te, or Ti without Fi?

  8. #28
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The theory takes it for granted there are adaptive advantages to specialisation of mental functions. If one has two introverted judging functions, say, or two extroverted sensing functions, one must split one's energy outlay, necessarily short-changing the workings of both functions, but what's worse, also shortchanging all the other functions because energy has to be used on them to clean up the resulting mess of having two functions with conflicting priorities producing mental product for "you" to deal with in the same realm.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    Ti without Te: Assessing everything in terms of logical coherence and first-hand understanding, without ever considering its objective, quantifiable reliability.
    Whats wrong with this My Ti is very strong


    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    Ti without Fi: Assessing everything in terms of logical coherence and first-hand understanding, without ever considering its effect on emotional needs.
    Dont think is possible because Ti is linked to Fe.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #30
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    They play into each other. Both Ti and Fe correspond to "what is". Both Te and Fi correspond to "what should be".
    I don't get this at all, and it sounds a bit like a Ti/Fe conceit on your part.

    Perhaps Ti/Fe and Te/Fi correspond to different ways of arriving at a concept of "what is" and "what should be"?

    More to the point, F(e/i) is values, a concept of "should." T(e/i) is more objective w/r to "what is" rather than "what should".

    I would suspect that Ti/Fe internalizes "what is" and externalizes "what should", while Fi/Te does the opposite.

    Personally, I find that sharing Ni means a lot more when discussing "is" and "should" becomes an issue. INFJs get me as quickly as INTJs, which suggests that the Ti/Fe vs Te/Fi split is not as you suggest.

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