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  1. #11
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    that's equivalent to just saying "because they do".
    Sometimes that's all the answer you need. At the end of the day this is all based on observation, hindsight and anecdote - you won't find the answer within this system, since it doesn't seek to explain everything. You'll have to find yourself a proper psychology topic to figure out why people are the way they are.

    If you really want the theoretical answer, though - they balance each other out. Consider if each function existed within a vacuum, without the other function to balance things out:

    • Ti: Assessing everything in terms of logical coherence and first-hand understanding, without ever considering the effect it has on one's social standing.
    • Fi: Assessing everything in terms of the implicit emotional needs it fulfills, without ever considering its objective, quantifiable reliability.
    • Fe: Assessing everything in terms of how it defines a social relationship, without ever considering its logical coherence or what first-hand understanding suggests.
    • Te: Assessing everything in terms of how it reliably and objectively quantifies something, without ever considering its effect on emotional needs.

    Admittedly crude, but hopefully you get my point.
    Hello

  2. #12
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    I think that Si/Ne are "discrete" percieving functions. That is, they take data and break it up into smaller chunks for storage. Si focuses on what is seen as solid and reliable, and builds up a collections of facts and principals which are seen as sound. It forms a number of knowledge nodes, if you like. Ne then draws in the links between them, forming a spider web of interconnected facts. Ne is still a discrete function because its links are well defined(A links to B,C, F and H...) even if there can be an aweful lot of them.

    Se/Ni are "continous" percieving functions. The direct sensory input from Se is completely raw and is processed whole. Sights, sounds, smells and the like are utilised in whatever form they are recieved in order to learn about the object of study.

    To Ni, meaning is flexible. The interpretation of something canchange with nothing more than a different perception, and in many ways both are correct. With a rather wordless character, Ni will often work with concepts and ideas that the user finds hard to express in formalised words until the processing is complete. As Se works in raws sensory experience, Ni utilises raw thoughts.

    Does any of this make sesnse to people?

  3. #13
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    There are Ti users who use more Fi than Fe (actually, this is often the case), and there are Fi users who use more Ti than Te.
    The order talks about the role the function plays, not the strength or how often it is used.

  4. #14
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    I gather, I gather.
    Love is the point.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Grace's Avatar
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    I personally don't feel like I use much Ti. Both Te and Fi come before Ti.

  6. #16
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    "Why does Ti always go with Fe and Fi with Te?"

    actually this relationship exists mostly in J-doms.
    and the opposite J is their shadow.

    so you can say that it "comes along with" the opposite J and you can say that it "goes against" the opposite J.

    and "why" is a complex question. because god wanted it to be this way? because it has been observed and was written down?

    but it's not surprising that the shadow works against "you", is it?

    and i don't think it makes sense to define a shadow as something entirely static.
    it responds to you. if you are P-dom and use your secondary J a lot, your shadow might just respond with your opposite J a lot.

    the shadow has all the possibilities, but it has probabilities as well.

    in the big picture of your live, your decisions are created by your dominant function and they are kept in between boundaries by the opposite of your dominant function.

    and why is it so easy to observe the J-J conflict?

    because J functions can be more easily identified via theory of mind, if communication is the object ob observation. they corrupt interpretations and leave an obvious handwriting. the P functions can be identified by actions, readiness and certain skills - factors that are comparably elusive in communication.

    is there a necessary conflict?

    not in theoretical utopia.

    don't confuse functions with their contents or conditioning:
    the developmental learning task of every function is to work together not against other functions.

    example: if you are Fe-dom or Fe-secondary:

    to develop your shadow-Fi you must access Fe consciously, understand what it does and why, then stop Fe from discriminating Fi. then Fi will start to talk to you and say what it wants.

    a matter of adjusting your understanding and attitudes and forgiving and giving up specific attachments to ideas or preferences.

    this is true for the opposites of introversion in the same functions. (Ti vs Te, Se vs Si, ....)

    ----

    i don't see a hard opposition between introversion of one function and extroversion of the other function. (Ti vs Fe, Te vs Fi, Se vs Ni, Ne vs Si)

    this is, i believe, why those shadow qualities become so obvious.

    a Ti-dom is unable to suppress his Fe because he does not even recognize it. so the Fe shadow becomes a mighty live force. but it has very odd characteristics, compared to the Fe of an enfj, because it's not flexibly concerned with the immediate situations but with some general live theme, like a code of honor of a soldier for example. so Ti-doms are enslaved by Fe and any conscious conflict with Fe is a result of this, not the origin, but more often there is no conflict and Ti-dom are stubbornly identified with their Fe attitudes, similarly to how someone "is identified with an offender" in a stockholm syndrom.

    likewise the Ni-dom is unable to suppress Se, so Se becomes a mighty active ruler of the Ni-dom's live theme. as such it's enslaving not empowering. its the voice of paranoia. dooms-day dreams.

    so this kind of conflict is hardened by conditioning at it needs some kind of therapy in the broadest sense of the world to ease the conflict.

    ---

    but Ni-dominance can suppress Ne, so the lack of Ne becomes a dominant factor in live.
    and Ti can suppress Te so the lack of Te can become a dominant factor in live.
    so this is a hard and direct conflict (Ni vs Ne, Ti vs Te, Se vs Si, ...) which is often conscious.
    but i believe such conflict can naturally be transcended by sort of loosing yourself in some kind of demanding activity.

  7. #17
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    why does Ne always go with Ti and Ni with Te

    why cant we have NeTe

  8. #18
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    The order talks about the role the function plays, not the strength or how often it is used.
    The Dominant function is supposed to be the strongest and most important, according to Jung. And the three below are used less and less.

    You don't get how the Dominant function is stronger than the Inferior function?

  9. #19
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    why does Ne always go with Ti and Ni with Te

    why cant we have NeTe
    STJs have Ne and Te
    Hello

  10. #20
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    STJs have Ne and Te
    NFPs too.
    Type: INFP Enneagram: 4
    Fi>Si>Ne>Te>Fe>Se>Ti>Ni

    cataplum!

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