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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Umm, I don't know what you're talking about. This is largely incoherent to me. It doesn't sound like you're very familiar with the functional definitions.
    Until you can properly apply the functions to real life you have a disconnect which I consider a lack of understanding. Until you can tie the 2 together you dont really understand it as it applies to life, you understand just one portion of it. Once you can blend the 2 together with what you see then can you say you understand it. Until that point its nothing more then definitions.

    some people dont start with a definition but work at understanding and merging at the same time.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #62
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Until you can properly apply the functions to real life you have a disconnect which I consider a lack of understanding. Until you can tie the 2 together you dont really understand it as it applies to life, you understand just one portion of it. Once you can blend the 2 together with what you see then can you say you understand it. Until that point its nothing more then definitions.

    some people dont start with a definition but work at understanding and merging at the same time.
    Yeah that's what I did, but if you think you're IXFX then you're probably working from a solely MBTI standpoint with the four dichotomies and not really paying attention to functional theory.

    Functional theory doesn't really allow Xs in types; an X just means you don't know what type you are.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #63
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Well mostly what they're saying is that it just doesn't work that way.
    And what I'm saying is that I'm so split on the J/P and N/S scales that the choice of a single type to label myself with would be arbitrary.
    And that I've observed people around me who it would be similarly arbitrary to type.
    I don't know how to make it make sense to other people, and I'd like to. I DO understand MBTI theory, especially in terms of the functions and cognitive patterns; but it seems that I understand in different terms than a lot of people on this forum do. I don't see the issue with that, however- I think here of all places is where it should be accepted that someone processes information differently without it being attributed to a lack of sense or something to that effect.
    I can only reply that if the currently accepted theory (sixteen types; sixteen patterns) doesn't account for me or people I know, then, as I see it, that theory doesn't encompass the entirety of human personality, and is wrong.
    Please don't reply that I'm putting people down to just type- I'm not saying that- but the system should still be a consistently accurate representation of what it focuses on, and it isn't. Why? Because there are always going to be people in the middle.

  4. #64
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackandthebeast View Post
    No, it would be saying that your Fi and Ni are totally equal, but that your Fe and Ne are close.
    How do you know it never happens in practice?
    I am an IXFX who knows an IXXX, two ESFXs, and an XSFX who says one of her friends is an INFX. But I know it's just my word against your proclamation that it doesn't happen. So tell me what you'd like from me.

    It makes more sense if you think of it like this:
    If you're borderline on a trait you don't just get the abilities associated with both types. each of the functions has characteristics of all of its placements. For example, having Fi and Fe as a first and second function, respectively means I focus on both of them; but also having them as a fifth and sixth function means that I feel confident neither in my ability to establish relationships nor my ability to interact socially. In the same way, my Ni and Si are limited in their individual capacities. I'm not very good at predicting future events, nor am I good at creating relaxing states for people. i am, however, good at understanding the conceptual structure of things, or how the qualities that they suggest (Si) and the interactions between them (Ni) generate an overall essence or vibe. I've also seen Se and Ne at work together, in my XXFP and XXXP friends as well as the EXFP musician Amanda Palmer among others.
    And I guess I'd attribute this to having all of my introverted functions come before my extroverted functions in the cognitive charts, but I have a very poor sense of external reality. I have trouble generalizing; according to my family, I lack common sense; and I need to assess the conceptual structure of things to understand them. So basically, being borderline on traits makes the traits that aren't borderline more pronounced.
    Have you tried reading Jung himself? Or maybe try SolitaryWalker's stuff on here regarding type. He goes into detail here and gives type profiles, and it's hard to find that kind of thing online.

    I don't necessarily follow current function theory myself, but I would propose that you must use at least 2 functions better than the rest, and one better than the other. I could even buy a split in the N/S divide, but to say you also have an equal divide on J/P is just asking too much, imo. Let's say you are isfj/infj. Your order will be at least Ni-Si/Fe. Personally, I think that is legit, but most diehard Jungians would probably disagree.

    If you are isfp/infp your order would be at least Fi/Ne-Se. Those are both extremely different from Ni-Si/Fe! You cannot be isfj as equally as isfp. Really the only way to tell is to give some deep thought to your primary function. It can be hard to recognize because we are so intimate with it, sometimes we cannot see it, in which case give some thought to your top two, then consider over time, and in various situations, which one you use more.
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  5. #65
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackandthebeast View Post
    And what I'm saying is that I'm so split on the J/P and N/S scales that the choice of a single type to label myself with would be arbitrary.
    And that I've observed people around me who it would be similarly arbitrary to type.
    I don't know how to make it make sense to other people, and I'd like to. I DO understand MBTI theory, especially in terms of the functions and cognitive patterns; but it seems that I understand in different terms than a lot of people on this forum do. I don't see the issue with that, however- I think here of all places is where it should be accepted that someone processes information differently without it being attributed to a lack of sense or something to that effect.
    I can only reply that if the currently accepted theory (sixteen types; sixteen patterns) doesn't account for me or people I know, then, as I see it, that theory doesn't encompass the entirety of human personality, and is wrong.
    Please don't reply that I'm putting people down to just type- I'm not saying that- but the system should still be a consistently accurate representation of what it focuses on, and it isn't. Why? Because there are always going to be people in the middle.
    INFP ...

  6. #66
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackandthebeast View Post
    I can only reply that if the currently accepted theory (sixteen types; sixteen patterns) doesn't account for me or people I know, then, as I see it, that theory doesn't encompass the entirety of human personality, and is wrong.
    You missed the point. Your type isn't accountable for your entire personality.

    the system should still be a consistently accurate representation of what it focuses on, and it isn't. Why? Because there are always going to be people in the middle.
    Functions can work together to mimic other functions. This can make people look like all sorts of things, including 'in the middle' or balanced, for the sake of functioning in roles other than just one. I suspect if all of these people you know are 'x' conglomerate types, where the 'x' represents absolute equal use, they haven't been typed correctly. Or maybe you just feel that filling the 'x' with one of the 8 letters will somehow rob them of their own unique personality.

  7. #67
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackandthebeast View Post
    And what I'm saying is that I'm so split on the J/P and N/S scales that the choice of a single type to label myself with would be arbitrary.
    And that I've observed people around me who it would be similarly arbitrary to type.
    I don't know how to make it make sense to other people, and I'd like to. I DO understand MBTI theory, especially in terms of the functions and cognitive patterns; but it seems that I understand in different terms than a lot of people on this forum do. I don't see the issue with that, however- I think here of all places is where it should be accepted that someone processes information differently without it being attributed to a lack of sense or something to that effect.
    I can only reply that if the currently accepted theory (sixteen types; sixteen patterns) doesn't account for me or people I know, then, as I see it, that theory doesn't encompass the entirety of human personality, and is wrong.
    Please don't reply that I'm putting people down to just type- I'm not saying that- but the system should still be a consistently accurate representation of what it focuses on, and it isn't. Why? Because there are always going to be people in the middle.
    And what we're telling you is that N/S and P/J are not actually "scales" when you get outside of MBTI and work with functional theory, so you can't be "borderline" because there's no scale to be borderline on.

    MBTI defines the four letters according to four sliding scales, yes, but function theory is different because it doesn't do that. From a functional perspective, you can't be "borderline P/J" because changing P to J or vice versa inverts the entire set of functional preferences.

    So all you really know at this point is that you come out near the border on S/N and P/J in MBTI tests, but when we analyze functions we're not paying attention to MBTI and its "four sliding scales" approach. We're paying attention to the cognitive tendencies that define the way you conceptualize yourself and the environment around you, and in these terms you cannot be "borderline" because there's no sliding scale.

    Before you decide the system is totally inaccurate, maybe you should make an effort to learn about it. The fact that you still think you're IXFX is a clear indication that you're operating on MBTI alone and don't really know functions.

    For instance, do you identify more with Fi or Fe, and why? "IXFX" doesn't indicate any preference for either of the two, which you'll realize is impossible when you learn what those terms mean.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    You missed the point. Your type isn't accountable for your entire personality.



    Functions can work together to mimic other functions. This can make people look like all sorts of things, including 'in the middle' or balanced, for the sake of functioning in roles other than just one. I suspect if all of these people you know are 'x' conglomerate types, where the 'x' represents absolute equal use, they haven't been typed correctly. Or maybe you just feel that filling the 'x' with one of the 8 letters will somehow rob them of their own unique personality.
    ^This guy is smart. You should listen to him. Bolded part = BINGO!


    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    INFP ...
    ^And this guy is right. All of your criticisms thus far are typical of Fi+Ne. I would definitely look at INFP if I were you.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #68
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    I was looking for a writing sample.. and this may be an odd choice of one but I recently wiped my old Facebook posts and saved them in a document (thinking I would delete my account); and I just cut it down from about 100 pages to about 10. I don't expect whoever might be reading this to read everything- I'm just not sure what other people will find valuable for evaluation.
    I think Si might be more difficult to observe in my writing, but that, at the very least, both Ni and Fi are extremely evident in my posts.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #69
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Can you repost that in .txt format? I have MS Word, but I guess I've got an old version because it won't read your document.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #70
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    Here.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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