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  1. #51
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    J/P determines your function projection strongly. For instance:

    INFP = Fi, Ne, Si, Te
    INFJ = Ni, Fe, Ti, Se

    whereas:

    INFP = Fi, Ne, Si, Te
    ISFP = Fi, Se, Ni, Te

    if you're INFx (x representing 50/50 ambiguity) you're basically contradicting your type entirely. The 'x' isn't saying "well I'm not sure if I prefer spontaneity to planning", it's saying, "don't pay attention to the first three letters because they don't matter now anyway." P and J seals the deal more than any other letter (if you're following the rules, anyway).
    this...

    Saying that you're INFX, for instance, implies that your Fi, Fe, Ni and Ne functions are all totally equal, which never happens in practice.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #52
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    Compared to MBTI, Socionics doesn't tolerate ambiguity in any dichotomy position well, though. Conflating the two theories when you're getting down into the details is never a good idea.

  3. #53
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    this...

    Saying that you're INFX, for instance, implies that your Fi, Fe, Ni and Ne functions are all totally equal, which never happens in practice.
    No, it would be saying that your Fi and Ni are totally equal, but that your Fe and Ne are close.
    How do you know it never happens in practice?
    I am an IXFX who knows an IXXX, two ESFXs, and an XSFX who says one of her friends is an INFX. But I know it's just my word against your proclamation that it doesn't happen. So tell me what you'd like from me.

    It makes more sense if you think of it like this:
    If you're borderline on a trait you don't just get the abilities associated with both types. each of the functions has characteristics of all of its placements. For example, having Fi and Fe as a first and second function, respectively means I focus on both of them; but also having them as a fifth and sixth function means that I feel confident neither in my ability to establish relationships nor my ability to interact socially. In the same way, my Ni and Si are limited in their individual capacities. I'm not very good at predicting future events, nor am I good at creating relaxing states for people. i am, however, good at understanding the conceptual structure of things, or how the qualities that they suggest (Si) and the interactions between them (Ni) generate an overall essence or vibe. I've also seen Se and Ne at work together, in my XXFP and XXXP friends as well as the EXFP musician Amanda Palmer among others.
    And I guess I'd attribute this to having all of my introverted functions come before my extroverted functions in the cognitive charts, but I have a very poor sense of external reality. I have trouble generalizing; according to my family, I lack common sense; and I need to assess the conceptual structure of things to understand them. So basically, being borderline on traits makes the traits that aren't borderline more pronounced.

  4. #54
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Compared to MBTI, Socionics doesn't tolerate ambiguity in any dichotomy position well, though. Conflating the two theories when you're getting down into the details is never a good idea.
    Wouldn't the ability for the theories to be conflated credit the intertype relations though?

  5. #55
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackandthebeast View Post
    No, it would be saying that your Fi and Ni are totally equal, but that your Fe and Ne are close.
    How do you know it never happens in practice?
    I am an IXFX who knows an IXXX, two ESFXs, and an XSFX who says one of her friends is an INFX. But I know it's just my word against your proclamation that it doesn't happen. So tell me what you'd like from me.

    It makes more sense if you think of it like this:
    If you're borderline on a trait you don't just get the abilities associated with both types. each of the functions has characteristics of all of its placements. For example, having Fi and Fe as a first and second function, respectively means I focus on both of them; but also having them as a fifth and sixth function means that I feel confident neither in my ability to establish relationships nor my ability to interact socially. In the same way, my Ni and Si are limited in their individual capacities. I'm not very good at predicting future events, nor am I good at creating relaxing states for people. i am, however, good at understanding the conceptual structure of things, or how the qualities that they suggest (Si) and the interactions between them (Ni) generate an overall essence or vibe. I've also seen Se and Ne at work together, in my XXFP and XXXP friends as well as the EXFP musician Amanda Palmer among others.
    And I guess I'd attribute this to having all of my introverted functions come before my extroverted functions in the cognitive charts, but I have a very poor sense of external reality. I have trouble generalizing; according to my family, I lack common sense; and I need to assess the conceptual structure of things to understand them. So basically, being borderline on traits makes the traits that aren't borderline more pronounced.
    oh dear, this is going to give sim a major hard on.

    edit: nevermind 8<

  6. #56
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackandthebeast View Post
    No, it would be saying that your Fi and Ni are totally equal, but that your Fe and Ne are close.
    How do you know it never happens in practice?
    I am an IXFX who knows an IXXX, two ESFXs, and an XSFX who says one of her friends is an INFX. But I know it's just my word against your proclamation that it doesn't happen. So tell me what you'd like from me.

    It makes more sense if you think of it like this:
    If you're borderline on a trait you don't just get the abilities associated with both types. each of the functions has characteristics of all of its placements. For example, having Fi and Fe as a first and second function, respectively means I focus on both of them; but also having them as a fifth and sixth function means that I feel confident neither in my ability to establish relationships nor my ability to interact socially. In the same way, my Ni and Si are limited in their individual capacities. I'm not very good at predicting future events, nor am I good at creating relaxing states for people. i am, however, good at understanding the conceptual structure of things, or how the qualities that they suggest (Si) and the interactions between them (Ni) generate an overall essence or vibe. I've also seen Se and Ne at work together, in my XXFP and XXXP friends as well as the EXFP musician Amanda Palmer among others.
    And I guess I'd attribute this to having all of my introverted functions come before my extroverted functions in the cognitive charts, but I have a very poor sense of external reality. I have trouble generalizing; according to my family, I lack common sense; and I need to assess the conceptual structure of things to understand them. So basically, being borderline on traits makes the traits that aren't borderline more pronounced.
    Umm, I don't know what you're talking about. This is largely incoherent to me. It doesn't sound like you're very familiar with the functional definitions.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackandthebeast View Post
    Wouldn't the ability for the theories to be conflated credit the intertype relations though?
    To the extent that they can be, yeah. But right here, one asked a question using the Socionics framework, while the responses referred to MBTI. The difference in the theories makes this "miscommunication" very prevalent.


    Wait, are we treating 'x' as an 'I don't know' or as an 'it's between the two poles on the dichotomy'? Because the two assumptions carry the rest of this conversation on in a different way.

  8. #58
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Eyebrows View Post
    To the extent that they can be, yeah. But right here, one asked a question using the Socionics framework, while the responses referred to MBTI. The difference in the theories makes this "miscommunication" very prevalent.


    Wait, are we treating 'x' as an 'I don't know' or as an 'it's between the two poles on the dichotomy'? Because the two assumptions carry the rest of this conversation on in a different way.
    The latter.

  9. #59
    Senior Member jackandthebeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Umm, I don't know what you're talking about. This is largely incoherent to me. It doesn't sound like you're very familiar with the functional definitions.
    Yes I am familiar with them. It's not unusual for people to have no clue what I'm talking about though. I have trouble articulating myself a lot.. I'll look at my response again later and try to formulate something clearer.

  10. #60
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Well mostly what they're saying is that it just doesn't work that way.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

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