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  1. #1
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Default Ti, Te and "Systems"

    OK, So I was thinking about how some Extraverted Thinkers on this forum seem to have a major problem with what the MBTI is, and I had a thought that I felt like sharing:

    Extraverted Thinkers (being the Extraverted Thinkers they are) automatically think of systems as external rules and procedures to follow - and so some look at the MBTI and assume that this system is telling people how they should be acting. These are rules that are meant to "enlighten" people to the correct way they should be living their lives - what a horrible, soul-destroying thought that must be! INFPs must have it the worst - not only it is telling people how they should act, it's even assuming that it can categorise billions and billions of unique individuals into 16 categories of thought and behaviour!

    Introverted Thinkers probably see it differently - this isn't telling you how you should be acting, it's an attempt at observing and describing an ongoing process. It's not an external ruleset, it's an internal ruleset - an attempt to understand what is being perceived. So the author isn't really telling you what to do and how to live, the author is telling what they've learned from observation - "the spectator sees more of the game" and all that.

    Does this ring true at all? Or am I just talking bollocks?
    Hello

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Introverted Thinkers probably see it differently - this isn't telling you how you should be acting, it's an attempt at observing and describing an ongoing process.
    That.

    Everything is informative... and prone to change if errors are discovered.
    Descriptive, not prescriptive.
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  3. #3
    *hmmms* theadoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post

    Introverted Thinkers probably see it differently - this isn't telling you how you should be acting, it's an attempt at observing and describing an ongoing process. It's not an external ruleset, it's an internal ruleset - an attempt to understand what is being perceived. So the author isn't really telling you what to do and how to live, the author is telling what they've learnt from observation - "the spectator sees more of the game" and all that.

    Does this ring true at all? Or am I just talking bollocks?

    That's how I see it, but I use Te instead of Ti.
    Oh yeah?

  4. #4
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    I create systems to make things run smooth, but I personally dont like the way you get locked into a systems rules. Thats why I program, I can create a system and manage it the way I want.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #5
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Everything is informative... and prone to change if errors are discovered.
    Descriptive, not prescriptive.
    true as that is, using Ti actuallt will have you look at how things "should" be, but for a different reason than the Te will.
    not as a matter of instruction. as a matter of classification.

    that is, for retroactive assessment. say a Ti user will notice something they didn't expect. by contrast to the Te, the Ti will use the information to re-classify, instead of reorganize or reconstruct or whatever weird stuff you Te types are always doing.

    the real difference:
    the Ti type only wants systems to be catalogued for reference so he will know what accommodations he has to make with as an individual to accomplish some goal.
    the Te type's interest is with having the systems accommodate him. his energy is spent on making plans for the objects and having them carried out, rather than making plans for himself. that is, his plans have nothing to do with him - he only drags himself along only so that he can see to it that his plans meet completion.
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  6. #6
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    I've got an objection, but I'm not sure what it is. The Extraverted Thinking perception seems very simplistic and inaccurate--I don't exactly observe any Te-users telling people of certain types how they should behave.

    If your Ti description is accurate, then Te's contrast to it would be that it's more about application of the existing theory.

  7. #7
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    true as that is, using Ti actuallt will have you look at how things "should" be, but for a different reason than the Te will.
    not as a matter of instruction. as a matter of classification.

    that is, for retroactive assessment, Ti user will notice something they didn't expect. but by contrast to the Te, the Ti will use the information to re-classify, instead of reorganize or reconstruct or whatever weird stuff you Te types are always doing.
    This really only happens when Ti is cut off from Extraverted Perception, so I think it can be safely disregarded as unhealthy behaviour. My real intention with this thread is to understand why some people are so utterly adverse to the idea of the MBTI, and why some people aren't. I hit upon the idea explained in the OP - that it isn't just a knee-jerk reaction to information that contradicts what they think (which is what I assumed at first), but an informed decision based on how they see the world - and I wanted to compare "healthy" use of both functions.

    So Te, informed by Introverted Perception, might say: "I don't need this system to tell me how I should behave and organise my life. People who do so are closed-minded and stupid."

    Whereas Ti, informed by Extraverted Perception, might say: "Wow, this illustrates a lot of things that I've noticed in other people as well as myself." or "this doesn't seem to make sense to me; I don't think this helps completely illustrate how people behave and think in real life, but I think I can improve it."

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I've got an objection, but I'm not sure what it is. The Extraverted Thinking perception seems very simplistic and inaccurate--I don't exactly observe any Te-users telling people of certain types how they should behave.
    I don't mean to characterise all Te-users as telling people what to do - the assumption I'm making is that they see "systems" (like the MBTI) as a way of organising your life rationally with rules and procedures. And so some Te-users (who are likely orienting via Fi at this point) assume that its telling people how they should act, even if that contradicts who they really are inside.

    Like I said earlier, I'm just trying to figure out why certain people on this forum get such a stick up their arse when it comes to discussing the MBTI.
    Hello

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    true as that is, using Ti actuallt will have you look at how things "should" be, but for a different reason than the Te will.
    not as a matter of instruction. as a matter of classification.

    that is, for retroactive assessment. say a Ti user will notice something they didn't expect. by contrast to the Te, the Ti will use the information to re-classify, instead of reorganize or reconstruct or whatever weird stuff you Te types are always doing.

    the real difference:
    the Ti type only wants systems to be catalogued for reference so he will know what accommodations he has to make with as an individual to accomplish some goal.
    the Te type's interest is with having the systems accommodate him. his energy is spent on making plans for the objects and having them carried out, rather than making plans for himself. that is, his plans have nothing to do with him - he only drags himself along only so that he can see to it that his plans meet completion.
    Not quite, I use Ti for objects, but I follow for different reasons. I follow because I do not create a plan and if I do its not comepletely thought out and allows for alot of openness so I follow because further Ti is almost always required.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Like I said earlier, I'm just trying to figure out why certain people on this forum get such a stick up their arse when it comes to discussing the MBTI.
    I'm trying to understand the phenomenon that you're describing here. Can you provide an illustration that might exemplify the kind of "stick-up-arse" behavior that you've seen?

  10. #10
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    OK, So I was thinking about how some Extraverted Thinkers on this forum seem to have a major problem with what the MBTI is, and I had a thought that I felt like sharing:

    Extraverted Thinkers (being the Extraverted Thinkers they are) automatically think of systems as external rules and procedures to follow - and so some look at the MBTI and assume that this system is telling people how they should be acting. These are rules that are meant to "enlighten" people to the correct way they should be living their lives - what a horrible, soul-destroying thought that must be! INFPs must have it the worst - not only it is telling people how they should act, it's even assuming that it can categorise billions and billions of unique individuals into 16 categories of thought and behaviour!

    Introverted Thinkers probably see it differently - this isn't telling you how you should be acting, it's an attempt at observing and describing an ongoing process. It's not an external ruleset, it's an internal ruleset - an attempt to understand what is being perceived. So the author isn't really telling you what to do and how to live, the author is telling what they've learned from observation - "the spectator sees more of the game" and all that.

    Does this ring true at all? Or am I just talking bollocks?
    Perfect.

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