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  1. #31
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Right. That's what should be going on, and it seems that the OP is doing so.

    So which part of what BlackCat stated implies that Te-users are holding the descriptions in the OP to inappropriate standards? Because that is the only standard that he implicitly noted.
    Nothing that he said implies this; it's the actions of Te users that constantly imply this.

    They constantly whine that it doesn't reflect reality, but that's because they're expecting more accuracy out of such a system than it could reasonably provide. It's inherent in the Te mindset that anything is worthless without x degree of empirical accuracy (decided arbitrarily by the Te user), so they don't buy the whole "it's constantly shifting to better reflect reality" thing.

    They want a precise, consistent, empirical measurement that can be tested and proven objectively, and they consider anything that can't live up to this standard to be essentially worthless. They hold MBTI/other typology systems to this standard despite the fact that such systems don't purport to meet it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I don't summarize the obvious.
    Evidently it's not obvious to everyone, since, as you've just informed us, our understanding of the Te mindset is completely wrong.

    So why don't you explain, firsthand from a Te perspective, what is wrong with MBTI and similar typology systems?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Nothing that he said implies this; it's the actions of Te users that constantly imply this.

    They constantly whine that it doesn't reflect reality, but that's because they're expecting more accuracy out of such a system than it could reasonably provide. It's inherent in the Te mindset that anything is worthless without x degree of empirical accuracy (decided arbitrarily by the Te user), so they don't buy the whole "it's constantly shifting to better reflect reality" thing.

    They want a precise, consistent, empirical measurement that can be tested and proven objectively, and they consider anything that can't live up to this standard to be essentially worthless. They hold MBTI/other typology systems to this standard despite the fact that such systems don't purport to meet it.
    And the fact they hold it worthless means they wont invest the time to make it meet reality.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #33
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    the relationship to theory and idea systems in general is just as relevant to this discussion. i find Ti types have more invested in definite concepts and meanings that focus on systemic integrity rather than on what they can accomplish. they try to attain a perfect objective truth, whereas Te doesn't focus on truth in-so-much as it focuses on action. there is no big truth concept, apart from what Fi deems subjectively true (tho they're often not aware to the degree this silently pulls them in one direction).

    i think Ni and Ti have an interesting relationship (of course i do, i'm an infj 5). Ni also focuses on systemic relationship but it is far more vague, hazy, and undefined. yet it is so densely associated that when it blends all the associations into one single 3-dimensional picture, if checks a lot of past information and context into that, so there is a ton of feedbacking. which creates a sort of integrity, tho without any Ti solidity and Fe context it is wildly projecting and pretty much insane.

    i think the i functions generally do the feedbacking. i still don't understand how Fi works as a reasoning process, apart that is has tons of feedback. i can't articulate why some Fi seems so advanced, perceptive, and well-developed, and some seems incapable of abstraction, expansion, synthesis beyond hot-stove = burning = bad.

    for me, Ti is such a breath of fresh air. strong Ti is so precise and specific and detailed within the system it is analyzing. it sees individual relationships and develops them into something with great organization.

    i still don't understand Te, but i'm starting to think i get how aristotle, and kant, and habermas all fit together in the ntj group. the Te categories ARE tightly put together and well-organized and speak to a specific reality that inspires philosophical thinking for a damn good reason. the balance of Ni and Te in ntj is interesting, it's difficult to cross that barrier of s and n and still have the role of Ti or Te be the same. but with Te you'll always find some Fi band-aids (as far as pure logic is concerned), which may or may not be a problem to you depending on your own values.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Evidently it's not obvious to everyone, since, as you've just informed us, our understanding of the Te mindset is completely wrong.

    So why don't you explain, firsthand from a Te perspective, what is wrong with MBTI and similar typology systems?

    Te perspective. As if Te operates all by itself.
    Can you possibly dig a larger hole for yourself?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Te perspective. As if Te operates all by itself.
    Can you possibly dig a larger hole for yourself?
    Havnt you ever dug a large hole just for fun? My dog fell in one I dug before, so you may want to watch who is around when you dig these holes as they are bound to fall in.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #36
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Te perspective. As if Te operates all by itself.
    Can you possibly dig a larger hole for yourself?
    You're being deliberately obtuse. Explain from your perspective, then, what is the matter with MBTI/typology systems?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #37
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Te perspective. As if Te operates all by itself.
    Can you possibly dig a larger hole for yourself?
    aw, just set it up like an assumptive case ... i.e., "let Pi = Xi" and then go to town!

    PS. I'm sure Sim can dig a deeper hole for himself. I believe in him!

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You're being deliberately obtuse. Explain from your perspective, then, what is the matter with MBTI/typology systems?
    Yup. My faith is vindicated.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    aw, just set it up like an assumptive case ... i.e., "let Pi = Xi" and then go to town!

    PS. I'm sure Sim can dig a deeper hole for himself. I believe in him!



    Yup. My faith is vindicated.
    Pi=Xi is what my whole world is made of. My dog seriously fell in a deep hole I dug but I meant what I said in a deeper N type of way. Are they not the same concept which makes them equal
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Pi=Xi is what my whole world is made of. My dog seriously fell in a deep hole I dug but I meant what I said in a deeper N type of way. Are they not the same concept which makes them equal
    uhhhh.....Hi, I'm DORI! Who are you?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    uhhhh.....Hi, I'm DORI! Who are you?
    No matter how much you want it, I are not You.

    ... I actually listen to each and every response, just get bored between them waiting for something to respond to.
    Im out, its been fun

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