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  1. #11
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I'm trying to understand the phenomenon that you're describing here. Can you provide an illustration that might exemplify the kind of "stick-up-arse" behavior that you've seen?
    Frankly, I'd rather not name names - I don't want to cause a shitstorm.

    But basically, some people on this forum are prone to criticising others for somehow "allowing" the MBTI to "dictate" their life - describing it as a cult or some sort of smoke and mirrors conspiracy to fool people into a certain way of living etc., and simultaneously proclaiming themselves "above" such categorization and classification. I would usually interpret this sort of behaviour as arrogant or self-important, but if what I wrote in the OP is in any way correct, I think I'm starting to understand that sort of perspective.
    Hello

  2. #12
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Extraverted Thinkers (being the Extraverted Thinkers they are) automatically think of systems as external rules and procedures to follow - and so some look at the MBTI and assume that this system is telling people how they should be acting.
    Disagree completely. That's really not how I look at reality, in general. Most theories are descriptive; normative thinking and physiological-psychological theories do not get along. The only discipline where normative thinking can work is law. Basically, if every Te type were to reason as you expose, then there would be (and would have been) no Te-type scientist.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #13
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Perfect.

    Cue ExTJs to show up and start screaming.
    Well yeah, of course they will. Because this is biased towards Ti. That probably isn't how they see it at all.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  4. #14
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Well yeah, of course they will. Because this is biased towards Ti. That probably isn't how they see it at all.
    Then they're holding the system to standards it doesn't purport to meet, which is inevitably doomed to failure.

    Reminds me of people who criticize music for not living up to the standards of the style of music they enjoy. e.g., a rock fan who defines "good music" as "having the characteristics of rock." "I listened to this jazz record but couldn't find any rippin' shred solos, epic power drumming, or even any lyrics! It sucked so bad!"

    Before you can evaluate something you need to understand the goals it purports to meet. MBTI doesn't purport to be some sort of system of rules to dictate how people should act; it's merely an attempt at categorizing commonly observed behaviors and motivations, some of which will inevitably not apply to any particular individual.

    If you try to interpret it according to standards it doesn't purport to meet, you will fail.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Everything is informative... and prone to change if errors are discovered.
    Descriptive, not prescriptive.
    She's always more succinct than I am.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Extraverted Thinkers (being the Extraverted Thinkers they are) automatically think of systems as external rules and procedures to follow - and so some look at the MBTI and assume that this system is telling people how they should be acting.
    I can't even remotely identify with that nonsense.

    These are rules that are meant to "enlighten" people to the correct way they should be living their lives - what a horrible, soul-destroying thought that must be!
    There is no "correct way" to do anything.
    There is only opinion.

    Self-righteous moralizers tell people what they "should" do.
    I once caught someone's post before they edited it.
    They wrote, "I respect that, and you all should too."

    That is not Te.

    INFPs must have it the worst - not only it is telling people how they should act, it's even assuming that it can categorise billions and billions of unique individuals into 16 categories of thought and behaviour!
    I have no idea what you are babbling about.

    Introverted Thinkers probably see it differently - this isn't telling you how you should be acting,
    Does this ring true at all? Or am I just talking bollocks?
    Yes, you are talking bollocks. But that's par for the course.

    Ti is subjective.
    Te is objective.

    The fact that you think Te would subjectively tell people how they should be acting,
    tells me you don't even have a decent understanding of the functions, or how they relate to one another.

  6. #16
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ lol case in point
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Frankly, I'd rather not name names - I don't want to cause a shitstorm.

    But basically, some people on this forum are prone to criticising others for somehow "allowing" the MBTI to "dictate" their life - describing it as a cult or some sort of smoke and mirrors conspiracy to fool people into a certain way of living etc., and simultaneously proclaiming themselves "above" such categorization and classification. I would usually interpret this sort of behaviour as arrogant or self-important, but if what I wrote in the OP is in any way correct, I think I'm starting to understand that sort of perspective.
    Some people allow others perception to steer what they do. They then project this onto others in regards to MBTI and think it does this to others. Its really a matter of what is the likely hood that other peoples perceptions(MBTI is created by perception) can steer your action and in what ways.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #18
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The fact that you think Te would subjectively tell people how they should be acting,
    I don't mean to say that Te tells people what to do subjectively, I mean quite the opposite.

    Ultimately, my point (or assumption) is that Fi/Te users tend to regard "systems" as external, and so see things like the MBTI - a system that they interpret is trying to tell you how to think, feel and behave - as limiting and arbitrary, and not fit to tell people who they are and how they should act (since that is the domain of Fi - only the individual knows that). And so they resist it.
    Hello

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    But basically, some people on this forum are prone to criticising others for somehow "allowing" the MBTI to "dictate" their life - describing it as a cult or some sort of smoke and mirrors conspiracy to fool people into a certain way of living etc., and simultaneously proclaiming themselves "above" such categorization and classification. I would usually interpret this sort of behaviour as arrogant or self-important, but if what I wrote in the OP is in any way correct, I think I'm starting to understand that sort of perspective.
    Maybe a Te user would take or leave the theory as it is, rather than try to refine it as a Ti user would.


    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Then they're holding the system to standards it doesn't purport to meet, which is inevitably doomed to failure.
    The point is that this Te description is inaccurate in the first place. The only standard that Te users seem to be placing on the system is that it should match reality.

  10. #20
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    The point is that this Te description is inaccurate in the first place. The only standard that Te users seem to be placing on the system is that it should match reality.
    The categories are constantly updated and refined to match reality more closely. Every time new information comes up that contradicts the old understanding, the system is amended to reflect it.

    That's what this whole forum is for--discussing and refining the categories as we continue to study their relationship to reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    I don't mean to say that Te tells people what to do subjectively, I mean quite the opposite.

    Ultimately, my point is that Fi/Te users tend to regard "systems" as external, and so see things like the MBTI - a system that they interpret is trying to tell you how to think, feel and behave - as limiting and arbitrary. And so they resist it.
    Excellent point.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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