• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Fe and assuming how people feel

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I know I am gonna get crap for going into this topic, but I noticed that Fe types will assume how people feel based on what we see and history. I see this within myself, within my wife, etc. Its the basis behind wanting to monitor and take control of a situation in regards to feelings. How can you be a feeling police and act pre-emptively without assuming how others are feeling. While this may or may not be Fe, its something I noticed within Fe types.

On a personal level I use this assumption to back down and judge when things have gone to far, how to step in, when to step in, etc. I watch people and what things they respond to and I "assume" how they feel based on what I see or percieve.

I see this in INTPs also. They look at the detail, like if you change around someone they pick up on the details of what you do and assume how you feel by relating these things together. Like if you tend to text all the time around people and around this one person you avoid texts to pay attention to them you start to make assumptions on how the person feels about this other person.

edit: I am Fe so I am analyzing myself and not just bashing Fe people.

edit again: I think the key to assuming is that we respond based on this assumption and its not always something we let out, but it is what we internally believe unless we see otherwise.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
There are people that don't do this? How do they function? Or do they just not care about how people feel?
 

Qre:us

New member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
but I noticed that Fe types will assume how people feel based on what we see and history.

I got tertiary Fe. I don't really assume how people feel (it's quite foreign to me even thinking about how they're feeling as a natural line of inquiry), but, I do assume what their pattern of thoughts are indicating. And, yes, I utilize the "general rule" - generally, a person in such a situation has interpreted it to be X (recalling past examples), and given all the other "clues", my dot-connection has led me to assume...they're thinking Y.

The underlying (overarching) thought to something, I am guilty of doing it. I try to find what all the little seemingly separate clues are trying to tell me about the overall picture, what the leaving out of certain relevant pieces mean, what the contradictions mean (what it's trying to cover up), what all this pattern is pointing me towards. As well, I come up with a few likely pattern of thoughts and then I utilize Occam's Razor a lot in narrowing all those likely scenarios down to my conclusion.

Sometimes, I am on point, and other times, I'm off. Usually when I don't take the individual that much into consideration, but see them as an example of, and because I don't account for their nuanced individuality...I miss. Or, if it's an issue squarely in the Fi domain, I miss, because I don't really take what they may be feeling about the situation, leading to their interpretation, into consideration. Just their thoughts on it.

So, if I know the person really well, and have a big databank of their personal history, their wants, their irritations.....very rarely am I off (I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but, I'm recalling my own personal experience). Fe allows me to state it in a way where I make it resonate with the other person.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
There are people that don't do this? How do they function? Or do they just not care about how people feel?

There is a difference between assumption and think, neither has to do with caring though. One we act on before we truly know, the other we question and verify before we act on it.
 
P

Phantonym

Guest
I must admit, I'm at a loss here, poki. Are you pro or against doing this? Or what?

edit again: I think the key to assuming is that we respond based on this assumption and its not always something we let out, but it is what we internally believe unless we see otherwise.

Yes, I agree. It is something that I think is inevitable with all kinds of relationships.

There are people that don't do this? How do they function? Or do they just not care about how people feel?

Hm. Yes. My thoughts exactly. People are not mindreaders but they'd have to assume something to analyze other people's behaviour and contrast it to their own. It is something that comes naturally, I don't see how it could be otherwise. The key is what you're going to do with the assumptions. If you believe that basically, what you have made up by yourself, is the absolute truth and there's no way of ever changing that kind of opinion, then you're on the wrong path.

I make assumptions all the time but I'm also aware of the signals coming my way so while I accumulate new information, I change my assumptions and opinion accordingly. It's a constant process.

There is a difference between assumption and think, neither has to do with caring though. One we act on before we truly know, the other we question and verify before we act on it.

Oh, ok, I see. Yes.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
There is a difference between assumption and think, neither has to do with caring though. One we act on before we truly know, the other we question and verify before we act on it.
There are times when a situation merits such effort and even as an Fe person, I'm always trying to improve my calibration for individuals, but generally the assumption allows for efficiency and efficiency is almost always a good thing.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I must admit, I'm at a loss here, poki. Are you pro or against doing this? Or what?
I am neither pro nor against it. Its not right or wrong, but an understanding of what people do.


Yes, I agree. It is something that I think is inevitable with all kinds of relationships.
Some like to talk about it though while others like to act on it and see how someone responds.



Hm. Yes. My thoughts exactly. People are not mindreaders but they'd have to assume something to analyze other people's behaviour and contrast it to their own. It is something that comes naturally, I don't see how it could be otherwise. The key is what you're going to do with the assumptions. If you believe that basically, what you have made up by yourself, is the absolute truth and there's no way of ever changing that kind of opinion, then you're on the wrong path.
Yes, some assume thoughts while others assume feelings. What else is their to assume that would not fit into thought or feeling(probably another thread all together though)? Sorry, that sounded sarcastic, but didnt mean it to be(Fe assuming how you will feel and it doesnt jive with the way I meant it). We have to assume something like you said, but MBTI is about categorization and this is one way to categorize. When we assume others thoughts or feelings, doesnt mean they wont changin, but it gives us something to test and play with by our actions and words.

I make assumptions all the time but I'm also aware of the signals coming my way so while I accumulate new information, I change my assumptions and opinion accordingly. It's a constant process.
I do the same thing and it causes me to change my opinion or assumption.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
Poki, you're killing them with your neutrality.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I know, I wanted people to fight my logic, not my stance ;)
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
I think Fe is a Feelometer, it receives feeling-input and kinda spews it out.

If anything, I think Fi is more presumptuous in how we think/believe people feel, because with Fi there is a filter or barrier between self/others.

Fe seems to enmesh me with we.

Just some food for thought.

:)
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think Fe is a Feelometer, it receives feeling-input and kinda spews it out.

If anything, I think Fi is more presumptuous in how we think/believe people feel, because with Fi there is a filter or barrier between self/others.

Fe seems to enmesh me with we.

Just some food for thought.

:)

So pretty much Fe, and probably Te, is along the lines of the recieve->assumption->spew.

Fi, and probably Ti, is recieve->process->understand

So is Fe pretentious and Fi presumptious. In this case Fi is more likely to know when its right or wrong, or when its jumping to conclusions.

Does assumptions come along with being pretentious? Would stating "you dont love me" be a pretentious thing to say and believe because you cant see it and Fe assumes based on its perception. As opposed to the presumptious of "I know he loves me, but why doesnt he show me".
 

NewEra

New member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
3,104
MBTI Type
I
Can't a guy be neutral and non-opinionated in his stances?
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
There are people that don't do this? How do they function? Or do they just not care about how people feel?

I was wondering the same thing, quite frankly. :doh:
 

edcoaching

New member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
752
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
7
I was wondering the same thing, quite frankly. :doh:

Well actually, yeah...as in T's can put tasks before feelings. For example, I was working with a bunch of instructional coaches (people who coach teachers). And the T's talked about how in emails, they first write their suggestions--what the teacher needs to do differently. Then they go back and put in "Hi, how are you? Great comment to Timmy. Nice smile as the students left. Good use of nonverbals" etc. But they really don't care about whether the niceties work or not, they want the teacher to act on the suggestions whether they like the coach or not.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I know, I wanted people to fight my logic, not my stance ;)
You're not talking about 'You didn't offer to carry out this heavy basket of laundry you just saw me walk by with! You must not love me!!' are you?
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
it's all assumption. they both detect changes, but the way they compare to a base-line is different. Fi is to what the Fi user would do, think, feel, if placed in that situation (really makes the situation real and expanded for a potential subject). Fe is based on the changes in expression, social context, and the dramatism of the situation (focusing on the communicative acts and understanding the response as part of a larger process that is communication centered or dialogic rather than purely subjective).
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
There are people that don't do this? How do they function? Or do they just not care about how people feel?

Interesting question. Just took the Cognitive Processes test again, and Fe came in dead last. Again.

It isn't that I don't care how others feel. I'm deaf to it.

So, in the same way a deaf person learns to read lips, facial expressions, gestures and body postures, I learn to spot objective patterns, determine likelihoods, and mostly intuitively guess, with a liberal dose of Occams Razor, how to deal with other people. How they "feel" very rarely comes into it.

For what it's worth, I care about their state of being, not "how they feel" per se, in kind of an abstract way. If someone feels bad, I don't hurt, too, unless I'm very very close (they essentially get direct access to my Fi, which I otherwise protect). However, I in general wish them well, I wish to help them if I can, but usually I'm at a loss at what I could say or do that would help. If I'm going to connect at all with them in an emotional way, it'd be with Fi, and that's far too costly for me to do with more than a handful of people in my life. The whole point of Fe (from what I understand) is that you still "feel it", and it "feels important", but it's more impersonal and buffered.

Instead, I'm stuck with Te, which is perfectly capable of explaining to a poor soul how he is mostly responsible for messing up his own life, and if only he'd do a couple things differently he'd be much better off. That really doesn't go over too well, though. :doh: As Happy Puppy quite clearly explained in a recent post, Te is really harsh.

Now you might be wondering how I don't come across as a complete bastard. It's the Fi. I can focus on that. I can focus on my own attitude toward the world. I can show others my heart, and they get it, they respond to it, and seeing it seems to make them happy. I just can't see theirs too clearly.
 

21%

You have a choice!
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
3,224
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I still get confused if I think too much about Fe and Fi, but in my experience growing up in a pure Fe family, Fe is pretty 'predictable'. You show what you feel (through facial expressions, choice of words, tone of voice, actions), whether consciously or not, and people take that, interpret that and work from there. Fi does this, too, but it doesn't use the same set of interpretation tools. With Fe, there seems to be an external 'agreement' on what certain things mean, which is picked up unconsciously by Fe people. For Fi people, their book of interpretation is highly their own, shaped by their own experiences in the world, so Fi is unpredictable, even to other Fi users. However, Fi tends to understand Fi, because, based on their understanding of their own internal value system, they know that there are other different internal value systems in other people and they respect that. Fe people sometimes aren't aware of this phenomenon and don't understand that there can be such a thing as an internal value system, so they are shocked that some people actually don't follow society's 'agreement'. Also, sometimes even when they know that there can be an internal value system, Fe people can be wary of it, because, unlike their own very transparent value system, the Fi system is hidden, mysterious, unknown, and Fe feels a little uneasy with the unknown. Miscommunication stems from there.

So, to answer the question: yes, Fe assumes how people feel and they are usually right, if the people in question come from the same 'Fe group'. When they apply the same interpretation/assumption across the border (Fi / other Fe groups) however, there are going to be problems.

Hope that was relevant :blush:
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
However, Fi tends to understand Fi, because, based on their understanding of their own internal value system, they know that there are other different internal value systems in other people and they respect that. Fe people sometimes aren't aware of this phenomenon and don't understand that there can be such a thing as an internal value system, so they are shocked that some people actually don't follow society's 'agreement'. Also, sometimes even when they know that there can be an internal value system, Fe people can be wary of it, because, unlike their own very transparent value system, the Fi system is hidden, mysterious, unknown, and Fe feels a little uneasy with the unknown. Miscommunication stems from there.

Very true...probably accounts for whatever issues I've had with Fe people. My ISFJ mom, for instance, cannot grasp at times why a person would not feel a certain way in response to something. For her, there's often a set way to feel and anything outside of that is wrong or just doesn't make sense. We can butt heads over that. I think a lot of it has to do with Si also though. NFJ people can be better at understanding there are different perspectives & that all can be valid probably because of Ni. However, once SFJs grasp that there are different feelings, they tend to be fine with it. It just depends on their experience & learning curve.

Not to say that I'm never misinterpreted by Fi users or that some Fe people do not understand me very well.
 
Top