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  1. #11
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I think Fe is a Feelometer, it receives feeling-input and kinda spews it out.

    If anything, I think Fi is more presumptuous in how we think/believe people feel, because with Fi there is a filter or barrier between self/others.

    Fe seems to enmesh me with we.

    Just some food for thought.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    I think Fe is a Feelometer, it receives feeling-input and kinda spews it out.

    If anything, I think Fi is more presumptuous in how we think/believe people feel, because with Fi there is a filter or barrier between self/others.

    Fe seems to enmesh me with we.

    Just some food for thought.

    So pretty much Fe, and probably Te, is along the lines of the recieve->assumption->spew.

    Fi, and probably Ti, is recieve->process->understand

    So is Fe pretentious and Fi presumptious. In this case Fi is more likely to know when its right or wrong, or when its jumping to conclusions.

    Does assumptions come along with being pretentious? Would stating "you dont love me" be a pretentious thing to say and believe because you cant see it and Fe assumes based on its perception. As opposed to the presumptious of "I know he loves me, but why doesnt he show me".
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #13
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Can't a guy be neutral and non-opinionated in his stances?

  4. #14
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    There are people that don't do this? How do they function? Or do they just not care about how people feel?
    I was wondering the same thing, quite frankly.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  5. #15
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I was wondering the same thing, quite frankly.
    Well actually, yeah...as in T's can put tasks before feelings. For example, I was working with a bunch of instructional coaches (people who coach teachers). And the T's talked about how in emails, they first write their suggestions--what the teacher needs to do differently. Then they go back and put in "Hi, how are you? Great comment to Timmy. Nice smile as the students left. Good use of nonverbals" etc. But they really don't care about whether the niceties work or not, they want the teacher to act on the suggestions whether they like the coach or not.
    edcoaching

  6. #16
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I know, I wanted people to fight my logic, not my stance
    You're not talking about 'You didn't offer to carry out this heavy basket of laundry you just saw me walk by with! You must not love me!!' are you?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #17
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    it's all assumption. they both detect changes, but the way they compare to a base-line is different. Fi is to what the Fi user would do, think, feel, if placed in that situation (really makes the situation real and expanded for a potential subject). Fe is based on the changes in expression, social context, and the dramatism of the situation (focusing on the communicative acts and understanding the response as part of a larger process that is communication centered or dialogic rather than purely subjective).

  8. #18
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    There are people that don't do this? How do they function? Or do they just not care about how people feel?
    Interesting question. Just took the Cognitive Processes test again, and Fe came in dead last. Again.

    It isn't that I don't care how others feel. I'm deaf to it.

    So, in the same way a deaf person learns to read lips, facial expressions, gestures and body postures, I learn to spot objective patterns, determine likelihoods, and mostly intuitively guess, with a liberal dose of Occams Razor, how to deal with other people. How they "feel" very rarely comes into it.

    For what it's worth, I care about their state of being, not "how they feel" per se, in kind of an abstract way. If someone feels bad, I don't hurt, too, unless I'm very very close (they essentially get direct access to my Fi, which I otherwise protect). However, I in general wish them well, I wish to help them if I can, but usually I'm at a loss at what I could say or do that would help. If I'm going to connect at all with them in an emotional way, it'd be with Fi, and that's far too costly for me to do with more than a handful of people in my life. The whole point of Fe (from what I understand) is that you still "feel it", and it "feels important", but it's more impersonal and buffered.

    Instead, I'm stuck with Te, which is perfectly capable of explaining to a poor soul how he is mostly responsible for messing up his own life, and if only he'd do a couple things differently he'd be much better off. That really doesn't go over too well, though. As Happy Puppy quite clearly explained in a recent post, Te is really harsh.

    Now you might be wondering how I don't come across as a complete bastard. It's the Fi. I can focus on that. I can focus on my own attitude toward the world. I can show others my heart, and they get it, they respond to it, and seeing it seems to make them happy. I just can't see theirs too clearly.

  9. #19
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I still get confused if I think too much about Fe and Fi, but in my experience growing up in a pure Fe family, Fe is pretty 'predictable'. You show what you feel (through facial expressions, choice of words, tone of voice, actions), whether consciously or not, and people take that, interpret that and work from there. Fi does this, too, but it doesn't use the same set of interpretation tools. With Fe, there seems to be an external 'agreement' on what certain things mean, which is picked up unconsciously by Fe people. For Fi people, their book of interpretation is highly their own, shaped by their own experiences in the world, so Fi is unpredictable, even to other Fi users. However, Fi tends to understand Fi, because, based on their understanding of their own internal value system, they know that there are other different internal value systems in other people and they respect that. Fe people sometimes aren't aware of this phenomenon and don't understand that there can be such a thing as an internal value system, so they are shocked that some people actually don't follow society's 'agreement'. Also, sometimes even when they know that there can be an internal value system, Fe people can be wary of it, because, unlike their own very transparent value system, the Fi system is hidden, mysterious, unknown, and Fe feels a little uneasy with the unknown. Miscommunication stems from there.

    So, to answer the question: yes, Fe assumes how people feel and they are usually right, if the people in question come from the same 'Fe group'. When they apply the same interpretation/assumption across the border (Fi / other Fe groups) however, there are going to be problems.

    Hope that was relevant

  10. #20
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    However, Fi tends to understand Fi, because, based on their understanding of their own internal value system, they know that there are other different internal value systems in other people and they respect that. Fe people sometimes aren't aware of this phenomenon and don't understand that there can be such a thing as an internal value system, so they are shocked that some people actually don't follow society's 'agreement'. Also, sometimes even when they know that there can be an internal value system, Fe people can be wary of it, because, unlike their own very transparent value system, the Fi system is hidden, mysterious, unknown, and Fe feels a little uneasy with the unknown. Miscommunication stems from there.
    Very true...probably accounts for whatever issues I've had with Fe people. My ISFJ mom, for instance, cannot grasp at times why a person would not feel a certain way in response to something. For her, there's often a set way to feel and anything outside of that is wrong or just doesn't make sense. We can butt heads over that. I think a lot of it has to do with Si also though. NFJ people can be better at understanding there are different perspectives & that all can be valid probably because of Ni. However, once SFJs grasp that there are different feelings, they tend to be fine with it. It just depends on their experience & learning curve.

    Not to say that I'm never misinterpreted by Fi users or that some Fe people do not understand me very well.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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