User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 16 of 16

  1. #11
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,689

    Default

    Okay, so how about we leave the word “tertiary” out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Fe does not suddenly make someone manipulate people when in the tertiary, and Te does not suddenly make someone organize people coldly when in the tertiary.
    Good point. Neither Fe nor Te make people neglect the importance of finding and adhering to an internal value system. But being Ne dominant and using a lot more Extraverted Judgment than Introverted Judgment *does* lead someone to neglect the importance of finding and adhering to a more permanent internal value system. Similarly, being Ni dominant and using more Introverted Judgment than Extraverted Judgment can lead someone to neglect the importance of connecting their inner possibilities to external reality.

    None of the functions, in and of themselves, are ‘negative’ or ‘positive’ per se. But negative or positive consequences can result from the way we use them. When I wrote “using the tertiary is negative when it’s preferred over the auxiliary, because then E/I isn’t balanced”, I meant to imply there’s something detrimental about using two leading functions that are either both Introverted or both Extraverted.

    From an Ne perspective, life is a succession of opportunities to pounce on, each opportunity opening up more that you can't yet see.
    I still say: This ^ is exactly why there’s a pull. Being N dom can be like having the proverbial carrot constantly dangling just out of reach. Sometimes Ne pulls outward, and sometimes Ni pulls inward.

    For Ne doms, perceiving a lot of external possibilities can pull them outwards- closer to those possibilities- and they might use Extroverted Judgment to reach them. For Ni doms, perceiving a lot of internal possibilities can pull them inwards- closer to those possibilities- and they might use Introverted Judgment to reach them.

    Babylon: I don’t know if you’re trying to argue that this doesn’t happen or if you just don’t like that specific terms I used in trying to describe it. But I know the N dom pull towards a Judging function with the same polarity *does* happen, and it *does* have some negative consequences. I'm just trying to find out if the ENPs feel it as much as the INJs seem to (and anyone's thoughts about how it effects the ENP/INJ relationship).

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    This is all very interesting, Z. I believe I made a thread not too long ago on Dom-Ter attraction, and I think this may be along the same lines as what you speak of
    The “stress translation” thread? What you described (in that thread) sounded kinda like an Ni innie P/innie J meltdown to me, at least it sounded very similar to the way my Ni innie/innie meltdowns hit me.

    edit: in case ^ it wasn't clear, yeah, I think it's kinda along the same lines.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  2. #12
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Even though I'm a slightly more "mature" ENFP (read:I'm closer to 30 than to 20) and am more responsible than I once was, I am still late all of the time, and I have no intention of hurting people - but when confronted with it I realize that in small ways I let people down all of the time and it doesn't even occur to me that I'm doing it. I tend to think being excessively late is about me, not them, but it does affect other people and I need to work on that.

    I use Te a great deal outside of personal relationships and when I'm alone. I show a lot of Fi on the Internet because I tend to approach it as a place to make friends, and I've done a lot of on-line journaling, and I'm "alone" so to speak ...so to be more Fi seems natural for me.

    But, like, there are people who fear me. My mom likes to inform people how I don't take any shit. My sisters make jokes like "Is someone harrassing or bullying you? Get Marmalade to yell at them for you!" My boss at work says I'm "a very demanding young lady" - I'm the only female at the place who will stand up to him, he's such a prick....I digress....I can also get into states of mind where I am rudely efficient. I don't mean to be "mean" per se, but I'm more focused on what I'm doing or being quick, so I'm not my usual more considerate, lovey-dovey self.

    I think I went through a phase of my life where I relied more on Ne-Te than I do now, and it made me miserable. Fi caught up with me in a big way. I like to think I'm more balanced now...I used to be a real wild child, very transient, very "go forward" and "get things done" and "experience new things." I've grown up a bit from that.

  3. #13
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    the tertiary just can get away with being self-justifying. that's the bottom line. or you can challenge your dominant orientation by allowing for more honest auxiliary feedback. so you learn, and balance your internal/external pressure in a better way. you are more accurate/realistic, your expectations are better, what you have mapped out internally corresponds better to the world that exists externally. and you have recognized that you are often capable of being wrong, or only partially right, and might need to change perspective or embrace ones that initially seemed antithetical to your predominant intelligence center.

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    136

    Default

    This is just personal observation, but since I have an ENTP husband and an ENFP daughter (never a dull moment in our household!) I thought it might be pertinent. People have always commented on how alike the two are personality-wise, which is accurate because they're both dominant extraverted intuitives. What I end up bearing the brunt of, unfortunately, is when they freak out about something and they're still incredibly alike, even though my husband is Ti and my daughter is Fi. It's this very frustrating combination of bad emotion and bad logic that makes me want to lock myself in the closet when they get started. Lenore Thompson does have a section in her book on EXTPs who get frustrated when they can't handle a situation and it's very accurate -- they become incredibly emotional -- but it also works for ENFPs, believe me! Anyway, I think it's the immature auxilliary function in both types: they waffle between really bad feeling and really bad thinking and the combination is practically unbearable. Fortunately my husband has gotten much, much better at his Ti over the past few years, so that he's able to think through adversity in a calm and detached way and even plan ahead a little bit. The same thing has not yet happened to my daughter, unfortunately, but she's still young. Anyway, what I'm saying is that it makes perfect sense to me that someone with an immature auxiallary could seem to go either way and not be particularly successful with either one. The trick is to figure out which is actually his auxilliary and learn how to introvert it. My problem with Thompson, and maybe I have't read carefully enough, is that she doesn't explain exactly what the mechanism is that causes people to go with tertiary instead of auxilliary -- if you're second best with a function, what would stop you from using that instead of your third best? Anyway, even though I don't understand it, I've certainly seen it happen often enough!

  5. #15
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I use Te a great deal outside of personal relationships and when I'm alone. I show a lot of Fi on the Internet because I tend to approach it as a place to make friends, and I've done a lot of on-line journaling, and I'm "alone" so to speak ...so to be more Fi seems natural for me.
    ...
    I can also get into states of mind where I am rudely efficient. I don't mean to be "mean" per se, but I'm more focused on what I'm doing or being quick, so I'm not my usual more considerate, lovey-dovey self.

    I think I went through a phase of my life where I relied more on Ne-Te than I do now, and it made me miserable. Fi caught up with me in a big way. I like to think I'm more balanced now...
    Same here, all of this. Living in Dom-Tert land was hell, and I didn't realize it. I remember being confused when my first counselor asked what it was that I wanted, as if the question had never come up before in my own mind--perhaps my mode of operation was too focused on the outside world.

    There's a lot to be gained through actual balance and some sort of honest introspection, and it's a process that shouldn't be skipped by any extrovert.


    Embracing the tertiary can have its advantages, definitely:

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    When channeled correctly, though, the 'Ne-Te mode of thinking' can be a powerhouse. Ne sees many different possibilities in a given situation, and Te can bring a great degree of follow-through, a sense of coordination, and a plan of action for the 'best' possibilities. It's a great mentality to get into when trying to be somewhat productive, a niche similar to TeNi and NeTi but also quite different.

    NeFi can express personal sentiments pretty well, but it goes off on many, many tangents.. it doesn't bring things 'to the point' like Te does. Sometimes, that's useful; sometimes, it's not. Thus, Te can bring clarity of thought as well.
    Still, it's not a mode that we should operate in for extended periods of time.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    I can't relate, but, then again using those shoddy online tests and such (I know, reliable), I've never scored too high on extroversion.

    I can't stay in Ne-Fe too long, it's frustrating, annoying and draining for me. Inevitably, I'll get more and more irritated and moody. I usually encounter this, when I'm in social situations where for certain reasons, I gotta "fake it to make it" (the networking is important).

    And, I gotta turn on the smarm, appease whatever I picked up from the other as what they're looking for, pick up minute stuff about their interests, relate myself to that interest somehow, to "sell me/it". Oversell my enthusiasm in their actual being rather than just get to whatever of theirs I need/want (literal strangers, in contrived situations).

    "I'll definitely email you! It' so great to have a chance to talk with you! I love coming to these things. Great organization and turnout! Why, next time, I fear they might need to take the parking spaces of the venue into primary consideration. It's such a hit! Har har har.".....

    And, it's utterly taxing on me. The rare few occassions where I put myself in such situations (a few importatant contacts had to be made, hence, had to do it), I couldn't be social for a few days after. I literally had to de-NeFe myself.

    My Ti is my calm...that which allows me my sense of *inner peace*.
    It is the one function that I'm acutely aware of in myself. It doesn't ever get beyond me, like Ne does sometimes, and it's not effortfully tapped into, like Fe. It's there. Just perfectly so. Reachable.

Similar Threads

  1. Parents who use their children as tools
    By Elfboy in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-19-2011, 01:39 AM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-16-2010, 12:23 AM
  3. What moral obligations do companies have towards their workers?
    By proteanmix in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-07-2009, 12:43 PM
  4. Using your dominant function in its opposite intended environment
    By garbage in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-07-2008, 01:13 AM
  5. I got pulled over for speeding
    By swordpath in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-06-2008, 05:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO