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  1. #1
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Default 'strong' inferiors and tertiarys

    I see a few people state that their tertiary and inferior functions are well developed. eg. INFPs with well developed Te, ESTJs with well developed Ne, ENTPs with well developed Fe. Particularly ENFPs with strong Te...

    I think there are usually simpler explantions for these 'well developed' traits, that have very little to do with MBTI. It seems as if people hide what they really want to say behind a little bit of jargon, whether it be an insult/flattery, a huge guess, or a generalization. In the case of ENFPs, this Te is probably just Fi, or something all people do... it could be that the ENFP is a 7w8, and is looking at e8 traits and calling them 'Te'.

    I'm not saying that tertiary and inferiors don't exist, such functions are usually just a weakness of using your prefered functions. I may just be annoyed that people aren't speaking directly. When you say that someone uses Te, how can anyone be sure that you know what you're saying? You could define Te as control in your mind, then suddenly use it to mean that such a person is abrasive. I guess it does take a bit more thought to describe exactly what you've noticed, but it might help to avoid confusion around here, not to mention thousand post long threads about house or eminem.
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  2. #2
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Hmmm, ok.

    Hypothetical, possibly illogical, scenario :
    Let's say an INFP is facing a deadline to send in an assignment. His Ne is telling him to look at all the possibilities, while his Te is telling him that he has to follow the schedule. So, if his decision is to hand the assignment in on time despite not fully exploring everything, it's not really his Te being 'stronger' than his Ne, but rather his Fi making the final decision?
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  3. #3
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    In such a case, usually, the simplest and most direct explanation is that what's exhibited is Te. Te, as a categorization of certain traits, also a term that many people here understand--since we're talking about similar models, we define 'Te' in similar ways.

    If someone exhibits those Te traits, we generally know what they're talking about--a collection of those traits, which include control, organization, and sometimes abrasiveness. It's pretty simple, really. Te in a tertiary or inferior position is going to manifest itself in more immature ways, so the more immature traits and immature versions of the 'mature' traits are going to surface: abrasiveness, 'spotty' organization, and so on. If the person's more mature, he's gonna have better control over that immaturity with respect to that function.

    Saying 'I exhibit Te' is a whole lot more direct than 'I'm a INFP 2w3-4w5-9w8 sp/sx tapping into my winged trait in my instinctual fix.' The MBTI model is useless if we can't use that sort of shorthand to discuss our experiences and how we relate to other people. Confounding the explanation by stating 'well, that's not really Te; the model for your type lists Te as a function that you don't use because --- --' just gets in the way of meaningful discussion.

    Unless one wants to talk about the model itself. But in the instances you describe, that's probably not the case. And I don't personally prioritize that sort of pedantic accuracy anyway.

    I just call a spade a spade. Occam's razor. Simple explanations of observed phenomenon using largely agreed-upon terminology in a forum designed explicitly to talk about that terminology.

  4. #4
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Hmmm, ok.

    Hypothetical, possibly illogical, scenario :
    Let's say an INFP is facing a deadline to send in an assignment. His Ne is telling him to look at all the possibilities, while his Te is telling him that he has to follow the schedule. So, if his decision is to hand the assignment in on time despite not fully exploring everything, it's not really his Te being 'stronger' than his Ne, but rather his Fi making the final decision?
    It's not related to Fi, therefore he doesn't care, and hands in the assignment, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    In such a case, usually, the simplest and most direct explanation is that what's exhibited is Te. Te, as a categorization of certain traits, also a term that many people here understand--since we're talking about similar models, we define 'Te' in similar ways.

    If someone exhibits those Te traits, we generally know what they're talking about--a collection of those traits, which include control, organization, and sometimes abrasiveness. It's pretty simple, really. Te in a tertiary or inferior position is going to manifest itself in more immature ways, so the more immature traits and immature versions of the 'mature' traits are going to surface: abrasiveness, 'spotty' organization, and so on. If the person's more mature, he's gonna have better control over that immaturity with respect to that function.

    Saying 'I exhibit Te' is a whole lot more direct than 'I'm a ENFP 2w3-4w5-9w8 sp/sx tapping into my winged trait in my instinctual fix.' The MBTI model is useless if we can't use that sort of shorthand to discuss our experiences and how we relate to other people. Confounding the explanation by stating 'well, that's not really Te; the model for your type lists Te as a function that you don't use because --- --' just gets in the way of meaningful discussion.

    Unless one wants to talk about the model itself. But in the instances you describe, that's probably not the case. And I don't personally prioritize that sort of pedantic accuracy anyway.

    I just call a spade a spade. Occam's razor. Simple explanations of observed phenomenon using largely agreed-upon terminology in a forum designed explicitly to talk about that terminology.
    The only way around this is to accept it, and promote a solid understanding of the functions :\
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    It's not related to Fi, therefore he doesn't care, and hands in the assignment, no?
    Fi, as commonly understood, has nothing to do with practicality.

    Therefore, Fi doesn't weigh in on this particular manner; therefore, it can be said that Te will take over as the judging function in this situation.

    And even if that isn't "really" what happens, it's helpful to describe what's going on as a Te trait. It isn't as if ENTPs are completely blind to Te matters of practicality, for example.

    The only way around this is to accept it, and promote a solid understanding of the functions :\
    I don't understand what there is to "get around" or "accept."

    Everyone exhibits all of the traits associated with all of the functions at times; we simply innately prefer some combinations of approaches over others and are therefore better in tune with those approaches.


    This whole difference in opinion is due to a difference in valuing the Te or Ti approach, though.

  6. #6
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    eh, do you buy the fact that a dom and aux function exist?

    do you doubt a tert or inferior function exist?

    If, you recognize the existance of each function, then are you saying we dont know when we are actually using Te for an enfp or Fe for an entp?

    Ie how can we know what function we are using at any given moment is actually that function?

    I just want to make sure I am clear, as your question was a bit confusing.

  7. #7
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    I think that in certain situations a tertiary and inferior can be strong, but more specialized. It fits in with the logic that we hit our tert when our dom doesnt work, so our tertiary would only really come in in certain situations and be more specialized.

    Wondering if putting yourself in your aux opens up more situations for your tertiary to develop. Havnt put much thought into this interaction though, its really high level right now.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #8
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    your entire investment is skewed one way or another. your tertiary or inferior may be developed, but this only means they're good enough to offer a final bit of clarifying support to bring your system into balance. to say that these far more unexperienced functions, which are not the foundation of your entire psychological system, are "just as good" seems to be a misreading of the entire system.

    i maybe seem really Ti to others on first glance, highly analytical, knowledgeable, defining terms, clarifying, making truth-claims, etc. but it's almost all Ni. in a strict Ti only game, intps kick the shit out of me. i have to write down my terms and struggle to keep everything straight, whereas they can juggle three or four of my concept-lists at the same time. but that doesn't mean they win, bc my Ni is where i am intelligent. but we look very similar, at times, due to our overlapping e5 ego complexes. we both have an incessant desire/will to truth, even tho we know it ultimately crumbles upon itself, and that we cannot reach the god-like state we aspire to (omniscience!).

  9. #9
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    hmmm, so i reread the OP.

    It sounds like the argument is that claims of the use of the tert function are mistaken or misattributed.

    The best idea:
    My suggestion would be to look inwards and observe your own Fe as it surfaces. Many entps say they can feel tert Fe coming on and off line as they grow older. Te does the same thing in ENFPs.

    The argument:
    I can tell you what Te feels like, however it opens up the argument of subjectivity from your end and the argument of how can you presume to understand my mind from my end. It ends up being a null argument honestly.

    My subjective view:
    Te is almost always present. Fi comes and goes in waves. I think most enfps are the opposite. I dont think my version is the healthiest version honestly. It does give me a very good perspective of my Te though.

    How do I know it IS Te? It took awhile to sort through this. Many ENXPs go through periods of confusion-In a standard MBTI, ENTPs can think they are feelers due to tert Fe. ENFPs can think they are thinkers due to Tert Te. It took me a few months here to figure this out.

    Once you realize it is tert Te, you just watch it. It feels blocky, structured. My brain loves to put things in boxes. My voice, mannerisms, writing style will all be different if using a lot of Te. My thoughts will be different-very assertive, aggressive, impatient, searching for efficiency and structure. I can be quite rude, but it is not intentional-I am digging roughly searching for an answer. I never stop to assume that the truth I uncover may actually hurt another person, or that I would hurt them as I dig. With an Xi function it would be methodical, with Ne, it is rushed and impatient.

    From an external perspective I score as a high D on the disc personality tool and I have been called argumentative, abrasive, bitchy, a sadist, and my ISTP ex husband told me I was the mean parent.

    I have also been told that I am innocent, sweet, loved by the masses, and have an old, pure soul.

    Could this just be NeFi but sometimes bitchy? NeFi isnt bitchy-it is childlike innocence and love. What's left? What is it that allows me to think logically if not Te? I dunno...

  10. #10
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    I tend to think of types in terms of rose-colored glasses. You have a type and you use all eight of the functions, but what differentiates you from other types is that you have your own style of using every function and that style is correlated to your dom-aux functions.
    If not, it would mean that an ENTP couldn't do anything productive at all.

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