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Too much credit to MBTI and not enough to male/female?

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
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I was reading Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus recently...I don't agree with everything in it, and I could see some people finding it old-fashioned, but I think there are a lot of very valid points and good advice.

It often seems to me that in MBTI discussions we are giving all the weight to type and very little to gender. Should we be giving gender differences more credit? ie. is it just "T" men who are likely to "go into their caves" or does that apply to all men, more than to women, regardless of type...?

What does everyone think? I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I have a hunch that gender differences (whether by nature or nurture) should play a bit more of a role in these discussions than they often do. It often seems that occasionally people will say "or maybe it's just because he's a guy and I'm a girl, haha" but not much more than that...

I suspect there may have been discussions along this line already - please feel free to direct me if an interesting thread already exists.
 

paintmuffin

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I have a hunch that gender differences (whether by nature or nurture) should play a bit more of a role in these discussions than they often do.

1. I'm fairly sure they're by nurture
2. There ARE discussions about gender differences, particularly on this forum.
 

highlander

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1. I'm fairly sure they're by nurture
2. There ARE discussions about gender differences, particularly on this forum.

It's an interesting question that I've often thought about. That book is good but seems overly simplistic in its view.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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I think the science behind the matter shows that there are definite social factors that impact gender development and that society imposes roles and expectations on members based on physical sex... however, there's inherent biology and body/brain differentiation that happens during gestation or as life progresses that also impacts how people behave. Even fluctuating hormone levels impact behavior in an individualistic way.

(Study the cases where male babies had surgery and were raised as women due to circumcision incidents within a few months after birth, and you'll see some interesting outcomes... the huge bulk of which still identified and tried to behave as male while still being raised as female without possessing knowledge of their childhood. Some turn out andro/ambiguous in gender identity.)

Technically, many transsexuals would not exist if nurture was the only force in play, because there is a lot of pressure to conform to assigned gender roles even from birth; the nature influences must be powerful if they can equal and even overcome in some situations the rigorous social training and pressures levied against each one of us.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
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I've heard the idea that M/F generalizations work about 80% of the time. I'm female because I was born female and gave birth to and nursed my young. No other generalization encompasses what makes me female.

That being said, I have more in common with ENFP and ENTP females on here than I ever thought I would have in common with a "large" number of females. That book would probably drive me crazy.
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
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If someone was considering how best to communicate and understand me I think I would prefer to be regarded as "ISFP" rather than the blanket "MAN".

I think the type code breaks down some of that nuture stuff.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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The MBTI is a descriptor, and as such, if there are any general differences in the male and female population, then the MBTI should already represent that in terms of differeng type distribution among the genders.

Anything outside of that is something outside of the MBTI's paradigm anyway, and thus does not demand very much focus in a MBTI discussion. It should probably be nothing more than the usual reminder that people differ in more ways than types can account for, and that's that.

So the first and second paragraph can be concluded as a no. I don't see the need to enter more gender discussion into it.
 

entropie

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I think in mbti it bears a somewhat romantic notion that gender is often neglected but I never really am convinced it does work in real life too
 

Thursday

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I've heard the idea that M/F generalizations work about 80% of the time. I'm female because I was born female and gave birth to and nursed my young. No other generalization encompasses what makes me female.

That being said, I have more in common with ENFP and ENTP females on here than I ever thought I would have in common with a "large" number of females. That book would probably drive me crazy.

Me likey.
I remember going to the dolphin/infj site and reading the quotes. It was like being home at last.
 

entropie

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Though the days my girl went drinking with me and the gang she showed us how its really done. She gave a 2 hour long subtle psychoanalysis of every person at the table, before she collapsed after the 10th shot of Jägermeister.

That day I was convinced, I am never gonna be a ladies man :D
 

kyuuei

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I think society does enough gender discriminating on it's own without us needing to drag it in and plaster it all over the walls here too.

For every "Females always do this" there's one female to say "Eff no, I don't do that!" and there's also a male to say "I do that.. does that make me female?"

In my eyes, I think people as a whole contribute a lot more to gender than needs to be. One of the reasons I love this place so much is how honestly neutral it is. I don't get slammed into a category based on how I look. "you were born female.. you MUST like XYZ and you DEFINITELY do abc, and I'll be damned if I'm going to allow you to lmnop." That bullshit drives me insane.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
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If someone was considering how best to communicate and understand me I think I would prefer to be regarded as "ISFP" rather than the blanket "MAN".

Yes, exactly. It is interesting that I feel more "limited" if being labeled "man" than when labeled "INFP". Shouldn't it be another way around, since the man label means I am like 50% of the people, but INFP means I am something like 4%? :smile:
 

kyuuei

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^ I think the freedom you're feeling is the freedom that you told everyone what type you are.. instead of feeling like everyone's telling you what you should be.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
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Geez I really hate that book.
 

sleepy

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M/F is concrete while mbti is abstract/thought. These influence each other, but does not have to be more then loosely connected in some way, although both are powerful identity and ego generators.

To get a more accurate model one could implement sexuality. Build different types, function preferences etc for this side. Then merge this with the 'personality' preferences.

So when you have included both night and day you can finally have a more complete mental model.

Mbti is imo adequate for describing influence for sex differences as it is for what it describes.
 

highlander

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(Study the cases where male babies had surgery and were raised as women due to circumcision incidents within a few months after birth, and you'll see some interesting outcomes...

Ouch!!!!! Are you kidding me??? This happens???? :shock::shock:Never heard of such a thing. "Sounds extremely horrible" doesn't do justice.
 

Laurie

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^ This is exactly how I feel when I hear about what "women" are like. I sit there thinking "I'm nothing like this"
 
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