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  1. #31
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    The point is that it's not done in a useful, dialog enhancing way. It's accusatory and negative. That is not the way to go against catagorization.

    A real thread about the limits of MBTI wouldn't have the excitement that a thread with flowery language and vaporous arguments does.

  2. #32
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    The point is that it's not done in a useful, dialog enhancing way. It's accusatory and negative. That is not the way to go against catagorization.

    A real thread about the limits of MBTI wouldn't have the excitement that a thread with flowery language and vaporous arguments does.
    The really interesting part is that we're using Fi to complain about Fi.

  3. #33
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    2 words: EPIC WIN

  4. #34
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I'm actually just responding to the questions with my answers.

    I don't care what function I'm using. Are you trying to box me in??

  5. #35
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    people are chaotic.
    There are three levels of development - chaos, order and creativity.

    It is true we are born chaotic without even the control of our sphincter. But with the help of our parents, our teachers and our peers we learn control over twenty-two years.

    So over the first twenty-two years of our life we progress from chaos to order.

    And once we are ordered at twenty-two the next step is creativity.

    Of course some fail to order themselves and remain chaotic all their lives. And so remain dependent on others.

    And some remain controlled and ordered and fail to move on to creativity. These controlled and controlling ones are called authoritarians.

    So some are chaotic, particularly the young. But most are ordered, they take orders and give orders, and they are the authoritarians. And a few are creative. Thank God.

  6. #36
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    was that all about? Did I miss something?
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  7. #37
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    The point is that it's not done in a useful, dialog enhancing way. It's accusatory and negative. That is not the way to go against catagorization.

    A real thread about the limits of MBTI wouldn't have the excitement that a thread with flowery language and vaporous arguments does.
    I can definitely see this point. There is a great deal of dramatic language and not always a systematic presentation of questioning the system. Even when it doesn't start that way it can degrade in that direction. Meh.

    The best way to understand any system is to question it. Once the questioning stops, the understanding can degrade. This is true even in the hard sciences and so much moreso with subjective systems based on observations. Has there ever been a system based on observation that attempted to map to reality that didn't undergo continual revision either in its conception or application?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #38
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Default Not just an Fi thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Good question, Elaur.

    While I can't identify with the exact character of SW's Fi complaints, I can offer my own frustration at having my internal emotional states erroneously dissected and examined by a third party.

    Not that this necessarily aligns with an Fi-specific complaint, but when it happens, it often rapidly changes the context of the conversation when my (presumed) anger over a given topic is mistaken for a subconscious, quasi-Freudian projection over some unexplored angst.

    It seems terribly pretentious and judgmental. What's more, it sidebars the conversation into a weird psychological space that rarely resembles the fundamental point we'd been discussing up to that point. Talk about obfuscation.

    It's a real buzz kill.

    And, from first hand experience, I can tell you that, as you said, it's not an Fi-specific complaint, as I've been on the receiving end of this from certain Ti-users as well.

    Fi, Fe, Ti, Te - emotional is emotional, it's parasitic in that the other needs to feed off of some "emotion" from my end, rather than my ideas, so will irritatingly try to box me and my motivations into an interpersonal emotional realm. Rather than see the emotions as just frustrations with the topic at hand.

    It's highly draining to me, dealing with such people.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Thumbs up To shit or not to shit, that is the question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There are three levels of development - chaos, order and creativity.

    It is true we are born chaotic without even the control of our sphincter. But with the help of our parents, our teachers and our peers we learn control over twenty-two years.

    So over the first twenty-two years of our life we progress from chaos to order.

    And once we are ordered at twenty-two the next step is creativity.

    Of course some fail to order themselves and remain chaotic all their lives. And so remain dependent on others.

    And some remain controlled and ordered and fail to move on to creativity. These controlled and controlling ones are called authoritarians.

    So some are chaotic, particularly the young. But most are ordered, they take orders and give orders, and they are the authoritarians. And a few are creative. Thank God.


    Victor, this may be my favourite post (analogy) of yours.

    Learning to control so that we don't shit our pants, and then becoming overly anal, are the two extremes - chaos/order. And, the creatives are what then? Those who create interesting sculptures with their doodoo?

    Pics or I don't believe in your "creative control" over your own sphincter!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    No, typology is not an evil conspiracy intended to subvert your right to individuality and self-expression.

    No, any and all attempts to categorize anything about your belief system or behavioral tendencies do not constitute a malevolent international plot to rid the world of original ideas.

    No, you're not so extraordinarily unique and special and unusual that your personality automatically defies all forms categorization and analysis.

    No, typology is not turning the world into nineteen eighty-fucking-four.

    No, studying typology does not ruin your ability to feel emotion or appreciate others on a personal basis.

    Yeah, we get it already--you're so special and original and creative that you can't possibly be boxed into one of sixteen arbitrarily distinguished categories [no matter how broadly defined they might be]! Yeah, we get it--you have paranoid delusions that any such categorization will turn everyone into robotic slaves to the evil Te agenda to squelch all forms of self-expression.

    And yes, everyone realizes how emotionally threatened you are by any attempt at categorizing your personality and realizes you're having a histrionic meltdown over nothing when you make these kinds of outlandish claims.

    The solution, you ask? Grow up, stop taking everything as a deliberate attack on your super special unique feelings, and get real.


    Your friend,

    simulatedworld
    You know what they say..

    What you hate in others is what you dislike in yourself.

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