Why MBTI is Death for Society

[simulatedworld]

Like a clinician, you think you have opened up a causeway to my mind; but the door is hardly ajar.

The serious like to be taken seriously; but why so serious in the first place?

Most prophecies are self-fulfilled; so it is the duty of the prophet to bring awareness before society chokes on its own pill.

Some prophets are even payed, while most cry like the boy who cried wolf. So thank you for paying attention.

Look at my first post in this thread--I knew from the start you were trolling.

I just thought it'd be fun to respond as if you were serious because you gave me a springboard for ranting, which I must admit I have a certain fondness for.

 

[Mole]

I think one of the main things that bothers me about the dissenters is how self-righteous they are about their opinion. I can see why, being that you're on a forum dedicated to this topic. I do feel however, that if this forum didn't exist, or you never heard of typology, you would be on another forum, perhaps a video game forum, proclaiming that video games make mindless machines of us all. In essence, you take your belief, your highly held opinion, attribute it only to the fantastic and brilliant workings of your own mind, and then post with the belief that everyone else holds the "lower opinion" and that they cannot take the evidence or the missing information surrounding MBTI and come to their own conclusion. And then, considering your opinions, you don't post any links or connections to other information that people can check out for themselves. Only you are good enough to give us this information, and we must take you at your word that you are right. And the thing that bothers me the most is how you attempt to make your words reminiscent of prose. You are not special. You do not speak honey. The way you dress up your opinions is laughable, as you attempt to coerce and guide the mind away from it in your responses.

I don't critique typology, I critique MBTI.

 

[Poki]

Also, on behalf of the SPs and SJs (less so): using Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs as a comparison, is quite insulting to these two temperments who are then "wallowing" at the bottom of the pyramid, having yet to achieve the top tier of self-actualization, etc. As if, the higher level needs only exists in NTs and NFs. And, since, one cannot get to the top of the pyramid without having all the bottom needs met, this makes NFs and NTs, some idealized "healthy" humans, implicitly then having all the bottom tiers' needs met, and the SJs and SPs are stuck at the bottom.

Finding common words in other theories that match with the words used in MBTI, etc., lingo, is kinda reaching...a lot. Death to wild analogies of MBTI. I call bullshit!

Gracias.

SPs can own playfulness and self-sufficiency.

I don't know if the tater-tot has pi**ed anyone off lately because the reaction on this post is pretty swift and strong, but what I *think* he is trying to say (aside from all the dramatic prose) does have some merit to it.

I have seen it happen here and IRL - people lean on their MBTI archetype in a negative fashion, not using it to help them appreciate their innate abilities and develop their deficiencies but as a justification for any particular "bad" behaviour or for whatever barriers they feel limited by in their life. To use your "type" as an excuse for anything is very self-limiting.

Aside from that, the OP comes across more like a meaningless rant, so if there's a need to explore this thought more fully, it might better evolve in a less contentious way.

This thread will hit the graveyard pretty fast I'm sure otherwise.

We also use who we are as excuses. I have told my wife to nag me as I cant remember things. I have had someone say "you are the teacher, its your job to control me". We all do this....holly crap....its not death from MBTI, but death because of who we are. Now maybe if we tried to comeup with a way to escape from who we are.....we should create a catchy acronym.....I mean even though society does this with everything else they are surely gonna use this new system in a positive way...is this just wishfull thinking, insanity that things will be different this time, or being positive?

 

[JoSunshine]

All good things can be used for evil and all evil things can be used for good.

Scissors are good and very useful, but can be dangerous if you run with them.

My advice to Tater, don't run with scissors and certainly don't blame the scissors if you do.

 

[Ayeaye]

Why MBTI is Death for Society.

The MBTI segments the mind into 8 pieces and 16 more pieces for each archetype. We call it "self-actualization", though the only thing to be actualized is a projected system. Those who inspect the system are too slothful to inspect themselves; so they wallow in self-stagnation - attempting to improve the system rather than themselves.

When the brain of the individual is lobotomized in such a fashion as the functional theory, the synapses fire and redirect signals from sender to sender, rather than from sender to receiver. Perhaps the signals are diffused in the empty cavities of division.

Likewise, each archetype worship themselves; not themselves per se, but an idolized version of themselves. The NFs with the NFs, the NTs with the NTs, the SJs with the SJs, and the SPs with the SPs.

Consequentially, those who worship MBTI become confused and convoluted like the segments of the brain. So when each segment worships itself, the societal brain deteriorates and falls like Rome did after its warlords succumbed to greed.

Society operates like the individual operates, as Maslow's hierarchy of needs suggests: The SPs provide physiological needs, the SJs provide security, while the NTs and NFs accentuate self-actualization and creativity. The individual may accomplish every need for sustenance, but the whole cannot operate without specialized individuals.

To avoid this depraved and false self-worship, we must reconcile ourselves and do away with the dialect of MBTI -- as the 8 functions are like the 8 colonies.

You may be possibly over estimating the Jedi powers of the centrals .I have yet to see even a rumble.

 

[Eric B]

Also, on behalf of the SPs and SJs (less so): using Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs as a comparison, is quite insulting to these two temperments who are then "wallowing" at the bottom of the pyramid, having yet to achieve the top tier of self-actualization, etc. As if, the higher level needs only exists in NTs and NFs. And, since, one cannot get to the top of the pyramid without having all the bottom needs met, this makes NFs and NTs, some idealized "healthy" humans, implicitly then having all the bottom tiers' needs met, and the SJs and SPs are stuck at the bottom.

I agree with your reasoning. It's bs for the S's, IMO, if one approaches it that way.

But I don't think Maslow's Heirarchy was ever meant to be combined with MBTI. He wasn't thinking about personality. He was simply saying something that actually is true in terms of what frees people up to consider things beyond chasing after their daily requirements for survival.... as we know from reading diaries and studying the lives of people who are forced into survivalist situations.

People cannot afford to sit around and think about moral or spiritual dev unless their basic needs are first considered. Maslow believed, apparently, that human beings needed more than their basic needs in order to be actualized and reach their potential and feel fulfillment in life. So there are foundational needs to be met, and then eventually people can move up into more interpersonal and intrapersonal behaviors and introspects to really grasp themselves and have purpose in life.

I think it's wrong to try to tie this pyramid to MBTI, if only for the obvious reason that all people regardless of type have the ability and (and often desire) to go through all the stages of the pyramid. Where type plays into things is how these desires are fulfilled and expressed higher up.

I forgot to address this one, and it was very important. The only correlation between Maslow and temperament I have seen is by Berens, in her temperament booklet, and she does not stack the temperaments higher or lower on the pyramid. She has all four temperaments sharing the bottom three needs. Self-Esteem is where it then splits into four, with each temperaments's needs placed side by side. The four apices at the top are simply the temperament name, implying that the temperament itself is the core need (as Keirseyan theory says) associated with self-actualization. So each then has its own particular "path" to meeting those top two needs.
So that would in fact, make all four temperaments totally equal on the pyramid.

 

[Jaguar]

On the label of the INFP box it says "Resist labels."

Good for them.

 

[evilrobot]

The Trilateral Commission is behind the conspiracy to infect the general population with the mbti.

 

[Little_Sticks]

<spins around in chair>

I have a question, teach. Why do people get so offended when someone mentions the idea that MBTI cements a form of mental projection and mental stagnation on a fixed mental archetype?

It would seem most who use the MBTI use it as a form of self-identity, which tells me those who do, have fragile egos because the idea that the system is just an idea always needs to be aggressively fought against with these people.

So in conclusion, congratulations, we won, but we're still retarded.

<casts shroud of asshole on self>
<hugs everyone in this thread>
I hope you smell good now.

 

[Shaunward]

I find it somewhat useful because it's given some objective analysis to traits I've found I have. I don't put absolute faith in it, but it gives me reasonable ideas to consider.

 

[Kalach]

Goddamn Gosh Darn you retards thoughtful individuals..

ENTPs speaking on a theory of people need people to take part with a view to understanding what people are. Using Fe supports the Ti investigation.

In the face of this INFPs preserve their integrity.

Likewise INFPs assert the primary value of personal identity. And ENTPs pick the assertion apart looking for truth about people.

Win all around.


And I didn't think that through very carefully because in a thread where people are busy not rising above their own functional demands, it isn't worth very much to point out that all youse MBTI nay sayers are enacting your types for everyone to see.


I'd say that the real death of society is ignorance, but society has been around for too long for even that be true.

 

[Mole]

We know how to test MBTI. We apply a double blind test.

But in seventy years not one double blind test has been applied.

Why is this?

 

[Kalach]

Who cares?

What I want to know is why no one has successfully developed a test for personal integrity. Huh? Why is that? This myth of being true to yourself has NO ADEQUATE OBJECTIVE TEST! The people who are being true to themselves are the key witness in the case! Obviously it is immensely useful that no objective test exist. And there's your cult of individuality. All these people running around claiming individuality, THE BETTER TO INFLICT THEIR INDIVIDUAL WHIM ON OTHERS!

Individuality is surely the most destructive, long lasting myth ever to attempt to destabilise society. Luckily, society knows better. We will slap down this individuality craze with as many labels as possible!

I hereby label this message "Warning No. 7 billion and 12", and I feel better for it. Join us.

 

[Llewellyn]

Individuation vs socialization

So let's say that I take the MBTI and my result is INTP, when in reality I am an INFJ. The time I spend as an INTP is spent improving upon my abilities as one; so I may be akin to a shark charade as an alligator. We all know sharks can't breath out of water.

Then you'd be ignorant 'spending your time as an INTP' - you take the result way too strictly/seriously.
You will know when you hit your biological borders.
An INFJ wouldn't do bad developing INTP qualities, neither would it the other way around.

And therefore the individual should arbitrate his/her own abilities, rather than making the conscious decision to refer to a personality map. Sometimes maps have uncharted territories. In conclusion, self-accountability should not be maimed. When you make a statement like "oh, I'm an Fe user, so I can't do that", you're limiting your worth. You're trying to play a poker game with a minimal hand; even though all 52 cards are in your back pocket. So you simultaneously lose the game while blaming the system.

Yes, this is something that has to be watched out for. But consciousness is pretty tricky in this, that it will always involve the present knowledge (of a type) in a decision - pretty hard to get around.

If they're too weak to sift information that I or anyone else offers them, then I cannot be held accountable for their actions. Some people are too spoon-fed to emancipate themselves from being coddled. Others might read what I say and comprehend. I'm going to speak out because that's what I feel I was put here to do. If you're not willing to vocalize, or even resound a message you agree with, then you're betraying the mouth you were born with. Simple as that.

Incredible twisting around of things.

I don't know if the tater-tot has pi**ed anyone off lately because the reaction on this post is pretty swift and strong, but what I *think* he is trying to say (aside from all the dramatic prose) does have some merit to it.

I have seen it happen here and IRL - people lean on their MBTI archetype in a negative fashion, not using it to help them appreciate their innate abilities and develop their deficiencies but as a justification for any particular "bad" behaviour or for whatever barriers they feel limited by in their life. To use your "type" as an excuse for anything is very self-limiting.

Are you the authority over what is bad in another person?
You cannot 'be' everything in an instant.
Sometimes it is used when people are being over-asked (not too rare in this society). In this way I think MBTI can actually give more rest to society, seeing that things develop over a long time.
Especially if you're Ti over Fi it is hard to pick up everything easily from everywhere (ok, from books i.s.o. people maybe); these things do play a role. I think "using" your type will only be done when it holds to truth or a person feels threatened.

To add a bit of my own:
I think MBTI is mainly attesting the individual, and that society is messing too much with the individual. So it is a safehold for the individual, where society can pose a threat. It's about individuation vs socialization. Only in a negative way can this be read as "MBTI is death to society"; if it is, it is due death.

 

[Jaguar]

Individuality is surely the most destructive, long lasting myth ever to attempt to destabilise society.

 

[Poki]

Then you'd be ignorant 'spending your time as an INTP' - you take the result way too strictly/seriously.
You will know when you hit your biological borders.
An INFJ wouldn't do bad developing INTP qualities, neither would it the other way around.

What they dont realize is that if they were INTP they would use MBTI in a different fashion then they currently do. They wouldnt see MBTI as a way to improve themselves, but a way to understand. Their motivation would be different affecting how they use it. You cant just change one variable without inspecting how the system as a whole would change.

 

[Kalach]

Goodness no, the profusion of labels is meant to avoid too large a power block forming. Ironically enough, we can mimic individuality by allowing so very many of these labels that each person has their own little group of tags and--most importantly--not too many other people to coherently and systematically identify with. Most people should always be several labels out of sync with any other person.

That's actually one of the problems with the MBTI labels: they're too global, too universal. People start thinking they have to fight. So we're looking into creating a system where everyone can know how ultimately individual they are, each separate and of no great substance. Encouraging the existence of many other metrics and tests is a start.

 

[Jaguar]

Goodness no, the profusion of labels is meant to avoid too large a power block forming. So we're looking into creating a system where everyone can know how ultimately individual they are, each separate and of no great substance.

 

[MacGuffin]

Who cares?

What I want to know is why no one has successfully developed a test for personal integrity. Huh? Why is that? This myth of being true to yourself has NO ADEQUATE OBJECTIVE TEST! The people who are being true to themselves are the key witness in the case! Obviously it is immensely useful that no objective test exist. And there's your cult of individuality. All these people running around claiming individuality, THE BETTER TO INFLICT THEIR INDIVIDUAL WHIM ON OTHERS!

Individuality is surely the most destructive, long lasting myth ever to attempt to destabilise society. Luckily, society knows better. We will slap down this individuality craze with as many labels as possible!

I hereby label this message "Warning No. 7 billion and 12", and I feel better for it. Join us.

 

[simulatedworld]

Who cares?

What I want to know is why no one has successfully developed a test for personal integrity. Huh? Why is that? This myth of being true to yourself has NO ADEQUATE OBJECTIVE TEST! The people who are being true to themselves are the key witness in the case! Obviously it is immensely useful that no objective test exist. And there's your cult of individuality. All these people running around claiming individuality, THE BETTER TO INFLICT THEIR INDIVIDUAL WHIM ON OTHERS!

Individuality is surely the most destructive, long lasting myth ever to attempt to destabilise society. Luckily, society knows better. We will slap down this individuality craze with as many labels as possible!

I hereby label this message "Warning No. 7 billion and 12", and I feel better for it. Join us.