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J Vs P

GirlFromMars

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
325
MBTI Type
INFP
This is a bit of a n00b question, but bare with me. I want to know the real difference between Judging and Percieving. I know the whole more orderly and structured Vs more disorganized, but how deep, and in what areas does it go? I'm not very organized when it comes to things like my desk, and I leave most things until the last minute (calling places/people I need to call, homework when I was in school etc.)

But when it comes to other things I'm organized, and really need structure, to the point I'm kinda obsessive about it. For an example, I plan what I want/need to do in my head, and would rather plan it out than leave it. I ask people what the plans are, because it makes me feel uncomfortable not knowing, and I can't just relax. I seem to be planned internally, but not-so-planned externally. The odd thing is my (J)boyfriend is the opposite in that way - he's more orderly on the outside than me, but more easy-going and relaxed with the things I'm less relaxed about. But I guess other functions, and other things come into play there.

So what is the best way to really sort this out?
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Well, J and P refer, specifically, to that which you do outwardly. Since you plan inwardly more, that betrays your P preference (Judging is inward, Perception is outward). Your boyfriend is J, and thus plans outwardly.
 

GirlFromMars

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
325
MBTI Type
INFP
Well, J and P refer, specifically, to that which you do outwardly. Since you plan inwardly more, that betrays your P preference (Judging is inward, Perception is outward). Your boyfriend is J, and thus plans outwardly.

OK, I guess that was my question made more simple and direct. ;) I did think this was the case, but sometimes I'll ponder because of how planned I can be inwardly.

Thanks!
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
1,256
MBTI Type
xxxx
It's the fun little paradox for introverts that J/P determines their second function.
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
P's have an introverted judging function (Ti or Fi) while J's will have an extraverted judging function (Te or Fe) so a P would be more organized internally (like you) while your Judger bf will be more organized externally!

Success!
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Yeah, as has been said, all that the P/J thing refers to is the first extroverted function. With Ps, it's precieving, and with Js it judging. The order of the functions has an influence, but its worth remembering it is different for ExxP/Js and IxxP/Js.

If the judging functions is primary (ExxJ and IxxPs) then the individual places more empthasis on reaching decisions (and acting on them for a ExxJ). Primary precievers (ExxP and IxxJ) take longer gathering information before they come to a conclusion (or perhaps never bother to judge it all, if it doesn't seem important).

THe other thing that is worth noting is that while IxxPs come to conclusions more quickly than IxxJs, the IxxJs often appear to be more decisive of the two, because their auxilary judging function is extroverted, and demands that action be taken on its conclusions, where as the IxxPs primary but introverted judging function does not! The IxxJs primary percievinf function is introverted, which means that its action is often invisible to outside observers. All they see is them "suddenly" decide to do something, without realising just how long they spent mulling the whole thing over in their heads.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
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5w4
This is a bit of a n00b question, but bare with me. I want to know the real difference between Judging and Percieving. I know the whole more orderly and structured Vs more disorganized, but how deep, and in what areas does it go? I'm not very organized when it comes to things like my desk, and I leave most things until the last minute (calling places/people I need to call, homework when I was in school etc.)

But when it comes to other things I'm organized, and really need structure, to the point I'm kinda obsessive about it. For an example, I plan what I want/need to do in my head, and would rather plan it out than leave it. I ask people what the plans are, because it makes me feel uncomfortable not knowing, and I can't just relax. I seem to be planned internally, but not-so-planned externally. The odd thing is my (J)boyfriend is the opposite in that way - he's more orderly on the outside than me, but more easy-going and relaxed with the things I'm less relaxed about. But I guess other functions, and other things come into play there.

So what is the best way to really sort this out?
The bottom line difference is that J prefers closure and to have things decided.
P resists closure and prefers to leave their options open as long as possible.
 

VagrantFarce

Active member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,558
The bottom line difference is that J prefers closure and to have things decided.
P resists closure and prefers to leave their options open as long as possible.

This is actually rather misleading, like all of the dichotomies. For example, unhealthy IxxPs (who aren't willing to adapt to new information) will likely seek closure rather than keep their options open.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
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Messages
5,413
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INTJ
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5w4
This is actually rather misleading, like all of the dichotomies. For example, unhealthy IxxPs (who aren't willing to adapt to new information) will likely seek closure rather than keep their options open.
Well, if someone is unhealthy it's unlikely they can be properly typed anyway.
Obviously the "rule" applies in the most general sense in the most "typical" of circumstances... not for exceptions.
 

evilrobot

New member
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Nov 9, 2009
Messages
182
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nite
Enneagram
5w4
If the judging functions is primary (ExxJ and IxxPs) then the individual places more empthasis on reaching decisions (and acting on them for a ExxJ). Primary precievers (ExxP and IxxJ) take longer gathering information before they come to a conclusion (or perhaps never bother to judge it all, if it doesn't seem important).

THe other thing that is worth noting is that while IxxPs come to conclusions more quickly than IxxJs, the IxxJs often appear to be more decisive of the two, because their auxilary judging function is extroverted, and demands that action be taken on its conclusions, where as the IxxPs primary but introverted judging function does not! The IxxJs primary percievinf function is introverted, which means that its action is often invisible to outside observers. All they see is them "suddenly" decide to do something, without realising just how long they spent mulling the whole thing over in their heads.

Right. IJs sometimes get lost in information gathering mode and don't use their supporting EJ function properly to structure, reach conclusions and limit options, and thus wind up looking like Ps.

Overall the J (organized and decisive) and P (disorganized and indecisive) stereotypes are not always a reliable indicator.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
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ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."
 

Windigo

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Dec 27, 2009
Messages
446
xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."

This is a good way to look at it. Thanks.

Right. IJs sometimes get lost in information gathering mode and don't use their supporting EJ function properly to structure, reach conclusions and limit options, and thus wind up looking like Ps.

Overall the J (organized and decisive) and P (disorganized and indecisive) stereotypes are not always a reliable indicator.


I think the above is very true! I often tend to get lost in all the connections and excitement for the information. I've also found that I sometimes need to start a new project or take a break to figure out how to organize it which people sometimes see as procrastination.

Ultimately I agree with INTJMom. I realized I was more J when I realized that I can't stand lose ends! I like things planned out in advance and decisions made.
 

letsplaytwister

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Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
20
Here's my outlook on J/P from a totally subjective point of view:

I'm an INFP, of which I have almost no doubt (thought I wouldn't be INFP if I didn't constantly question my type a bit, right?), but I am also very strict with myself about meeting people exactly on time (as in, if I'm five minutes early or late I'm disappointed in myself). Yet, I do this using a considerable amount of energy. I recently realized that my desire to be punctual and reliable comes more from a desire to not let people down than it does from a desire for doing it just because that's that way of things. Also, I was raised by SJs, so I'm sure that has something to do with it too!

So really, it's not a comfortable process for me, to "act" like a J. It's a learned one. If I had my way (and basically, if modern society didn't exist), timelines and schedules would be fluid and flexible.

I have an ENFP best friend (of 15 years) who was notoriously flaky and absent-minded for a good amount of those 15 years, but recently has learned to be more punctual and reliable. I recently showed up to a meeting expecting him, and he was there before me, which blew my mind!

It IS absolutely possible to be a P with a tendency towards organization and punctuality!
 

Windigo

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Dec 27, 2009
Messages
446
Here's my outlook on J/P from a totally subjective point of view:

I'm an INFP, of which I have almost no doubt (thought I wouldn't be INFP if I didn't constantly question my type a bit, right?), but I am also very strict with myself about meeting people exactly on time (as in, if I'm five minutes early or late I'm disappointed in myself). Yet, I do this using a considerable amount of energy. I recently realized that my desire to be punctual and reliable comes more from a desire to not let people down than it does from a desire for doing it just because that's that way of things. Also, I was raised by SJs, so I'm sure that has something to do with it too!

So really, it's not a comfortable process for me, to "act" like a J. It's a learned one. If I had my way (and basically, if modern society didn't exist), timelines and schedules would be fluid and flexible.

I have an ENFP best friend (of 15 years) who was notoriously flaky and absent-minded for a good amount of those 15 years, but recently has learned to be more punctual and reliable. I recently showed up to a meeting expecting him, and he was there before me, which blew my mind!

It IS absolutely possible to be a P with a tendency towards organization and punctuality!

I agree. That is why we have to be careful not to jump to conclusions based on someone's outward appearance. Often our parent's values can heavily influence us when they are very different from ours. Had you been raised by FPs the idea of being on time might never have occured to you.

I also think, the MBTI test can be misleading. Many people don't realize what motivates their behavior in a certain way until they have thought about it for a while. So often we answer the questions in what we think should be important to us or how other people see us based on misconceptions about ourselves.

For example my mom always called me a procrastinator because I didn't wake up every am and write out a to do list like she did (ESTP). Also for papers in school I would read all the books the teachers recommended and then take two weeks off to process the information before I actually started the writing process. It drove my mom nuts that he due date was getting closer and she couldn't "see" me doing what I was supposed to, not realizing that I needed to focus on something different to process the information and develop my thesis. If I started writing and trying to develop a thesis with out significant Ni time, it was more of a chore for me. After I got my Aha! moment and knew exactly what everything meant and what I wanted to say, I could sit down at the computer and type an almost perfect paper without all the diagrams and charts. I wasn't procrastinating . . . I was processing. But I've always beaten myself up for being a procrastinator even though I really am not, which is why I first tested as an ENTP.
 

Emectar

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May 17, 2010
Messages
149
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ENFP
I think J's are able to get closure on their impressions of people things and ideas very quickly. They make hard desicions and stick to them by nature.

P's don't ever really get closure on any ideas. Everything is left open, their impressions on people, their feelings about people, their ideas. They make desicions by looking at alllll the options and theyre not even sure if they made the right choice after.
 

Tamske

Writing...
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Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
Judging: One stitch in time saves nine. They make plans and carry them out. They decide quickly to get things out of the way.

Perceiving: Van uitstel komt afstel. (<- this is Dutch) I don't know a similar saying in English, so I'll explain a bit. It means something like "If you postpone things, eventually they won't get done" This is true for both work and play. The things you aren't interested in at the moment get postponed - why study now if, maybe, the teacher says later you don't have to know that part? The things you are interested in get done immediately - for fear of missing the chance.
Perceivers decide at the last possible moment because new information could mean a better deal.

Most people are a mixture :) Being a P doesn't keep me from preparing my lessons.
 
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