Ne and Ni

[Malcontent]

About Ni and Ne

My mom and I are both intuitive, but I think in different way and I would like to know which type of intuition we have.

Two examples:

My mom has intuition in the way of a sort of sixth sense. She sometimes says: It's time I don't see that person, he has some issues surely. Or, I think that girl seems good, but I have bad impression, I think finally she will leave him.
Often my mom is right in her prevision without fact.

My intuition is more about noticing impercettible details, but I cannot explain how. For example: I usually can predict a scene in a thriller movie or I can find instantanely which information in a tons of informations is important and I need to focus on.

Any thought?

 

[VagrantFarce]

If you're talking about prevision (or "foresight" in general), especially "without fact", you're talking about Ni.

Parts of the second one feels more like Si, the ability to pick out small details that are relevant from a sea of information. Could just be Ne working with Si to make predictions based on your experience with thriller movies.

 

[simulatedworld]

Ni is the one which groups your experiences into concepts; it can retrieve "how to make hot water" from your memory when asked how to make hot chocolate; it is responsible for the transfer of knowledge to other domains.

That is most definitely Si, not Ni.

Both Si and Ni deal with personalized interpretation of meaning and significance.

Si does this by associating every possible sign with a consistent meaning based on what that sign has meant in past experience. e.g., "When I put these ingredients together this way, I get hot chocolate." Si wants a map of experiences so that it can avoid dealing with unknown or unpredictable variables.

Ni, on the other hand, does this by associating every possible sign with every possible meaning or interpretation that could be associated with it, and trying to remove itself from bias toward any particular interpretation. "When I put these ingredients together this way, why should I assume that I get hot chocolate? What perceptual bias is unconsciously affecting me due to my decision to associate this sign with this meaning?"

As the LTEW reminds us,

Si: Until I can find it on a map that I can carry around complete within myself, providing a set of things to look for and meanings that they correspond to, I don't see how I can relate to it.

Ni: Until I can separate myself from its built-in interpretations and see it from the outside, in terms of a framework that is independent of everything about it, I refuse to relate to it. You can't make me look--at least, not your way.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

^I like that a lot:

What perceptual bias is unconsciously affecting me due to my decision to associate this sign with this meaning?"

so so true. it's the driving force behind everything for me. also even deals with things/people consciously affecting me: people's opinions, popular opinion, arguements. like don't try to influence me, I will figure it out on my own.

 

[edcoaching]

Ne steps out of the box and makes sense of it's universal features
Ni doesn't acknowledge box until they create their own box which they compare to the original existing box.

DArned accurate

 

[edcoaching]

My mom has intuition in the way of a sort of sixth sense. She sometimes says: It's time I don't see that person, he has some issues surely. Or, I think that girl seems good, but I have bad impression, I think finally she will leave him.
Often my mom is right in her prevision without fact. Any thought?

I'd say this is more of the Feeling function, stepping into the shoes of someone else and getting a read on the situation. Ni and Ne are more about drawing connections, whether among internal or external perceptions.

 

[Oaky]

I have to say the cescritpion in the OP just sounds like what I always thought Ti is:

No. It's not Ti. Ti does not create possibilities of a situation. It deducts logical conclusions of a situation.

 

[tcda]

No. It's not Ti. Ti does not create possibilities of a situation. It deducts logical conclusions of a situation.

Ok then. I'd never heard that description of Ni.

 

[Tamske]

Argh. :steam: Every description of Ni I encounter looks like it's some paranormal ability; and whenever I try to describe it I seem to end up either with Ne or Si. I just don't get that function!
... Okay, I'll try again:

Comparing with Si:

That is most definitely Si, not Ni.
Both Si and Ni deal with personalized interpretation of meaning and significance.
Si does this by associating every possible sign with a consistent meaning based on what that sign has meant in past experience. e.g., "When I put these ingredients together this way, I get hot chocolate."

Yes, that's Si indeed. But I wasn't talking about retrieving a known recipe for hot chocolate. I was talking about the transfer of knowledge. About using the known recipe for hot water for the new situation of hot chocolate for which you don't know the recipe.
Si is like an algorithm - if I do this, I will get that. If faced with this situation, react that way.
Ni is like heuristics - when faced with an unknown situation, look for known situations that are similar; try to anticipate with "what-if" questions,...
Si is learning by heart; a fitting reaction to every situation.
Ni is making the connections between different bits of knowledge, more like "understanding".
Whenever my students talk about "understanding", they talk about placing the knowledge in the context of knowledge already present in their mind. Ni?

Comparing with Ne:
Ni does more or less the same as Ne, making associations, and the difference is this:
Ne has to be fueled with observations from the outside world and/or with new abstract ideas and concepts spoken or written by other persons.
Ni works with the information already present in the mind.

Am I in the ball park?

 

[Llewellyn]

I wanted to use this thread to add the little following.

Si: '[self] is health'
Ni: '[self] becomes health'
Se: 'environment is health' (attraction of the environment)
Ne: 'environment becomes health' (protection of the environment)

Just a little cryptic...

Well in line with:

• Extraverted Sensation (Se) says that the observable world is filled with wonderful stimuli, and all you have to do is let yourself react to it. No need to think, just react. The meaning of something is what your gut tells you you should do in response. If it's not here or not now, it's not real.
• Introverted Intuition (Ni) says that the observable world is arbitrary and deceitful, and not representative of all the possible interpretations of itself. You have to liberate yourself from these arbitrary interpretations by considering all possible interpretations, or you will risk being led astray.

• Extraverted Intuition (Ne) says that everything in the observable world is connected to a greater context, and it allows you to make contextual connections between this object and another one. Through this act of discovery, we become aware of greater possibilities for meaning, knowledge or action.
• Introverted Sensation (Si) says that the observable world is so overwhelmingly filled with stimuli and randomness that you need something stable to focus on, or you'll just be permanently overwhelmed and confused.

 

[Cybin]

I've understood Ni v Ne as deductive v inductive reasoning.

Ne starts at a point and makes ever expanding connections to perceive as much as needed to satiate Ji. Ni takes relevant but disconnected environmental cues and ties them together to an end point to be applied through Je. Ne adds new information, Ni looks at the information and picks up the 'true' perspective. For lack of a betterterm anyway.

 

[Llewellyn]

Here's an example of this Ni thought process:

"Why did that person spit to the side as he walked past me? Does he know me? Did he do it without thinking? Perhaps he spat just because he had something in his mouth and coincidentally I was there when he spat. But then again perhaps not. He could have also done it because he doesn't like the way I look, or dress, or my posture. Hmmm.. Maybe it's a sign. Maybe he's telling me something without being direct. He's wearing a similar scarf therefore he probably despised the idea of me wearing one too. Maybe he wants to see my reaction. He's not looking back so perhaps he expects me to go to him and ask him why he did that. Perhaps there is a person with a camera nearby video taping this. Maybe he is good though. Maybe he is indicating he is sick and wants me to stay away from him. Too noble. He's definitely up to something... "

I've been thinking along similar lines when someone on a given occurrence spit while passing me, though not at all in such literal detail, more in possible meanings (simply based on the single given perception). I started out giving it a negative connotation, like that. A.o. I thought he might have done it for having no other outlet. I ended up considering positively it might have been a sign of respect.
So, corresponding to the difference you outline, I guess the difference might just be that Ni keeps wondering (taking in more and more detail), where Ne bends it to a positive (though perhaps far-away) conclusion.

I've understood Ni v Ne as deductive v inductive reasoning.

Ne starts at a point and makes ever expanding connections to perceive as much as needed to satiate Ji. Ni takes relevant but disconnected environmental cues and ties them together to an end point to be applied through Je. Ne adds new information, Ni looks at the information and picks up the 'true' perspective. For lack of a betterterm anyway.

I'd say turn around deductive and inductive...

Good how this thread associates N with reasoning.

 

[sleepy]

I look at Ne as sitting on the higher hill taking in the landscape. While the Ni is down in the dirt bent over using a magnifying glass.

Or in the boat, Ne scouting the horizon and sky, while the Ni has it's in the water surveying the ocean floor.

Or most likely. At the mental institution. Ne they screams at day, while Ni they screams at night.

 

[Gamine]

Ne and Ni are supposedly the most confusing functions people try and make out. There are many false explanations I've seen before so hopefully this thread will make things clear.




"Why did that person spit to the side as he walked past me?"

Taking that question, I'm going to Ne all over the place.

That person spit when they walked by me. Spit is a funny word. I wish I had some gum. What if they could power a boat by having a group pf people spitting on a water mill instead of people with oars? Would the Vikings still have been able to make it across the ocean? If so, my friend's Basset Hound drools enough to power the Enterprise through Warp speed. Life would be so much cooler in space. Why haven't I been to space yet......... Oh look, colourful street lights! Spit is still a funny word. Hehe.






I'd like to vote to make Ne the "what if" function.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You want Ne? Here is good example of it.



[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj41ybvQbi4"]A je to[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Chloe]

so i guess there was a reason that was my favorite cartoon as a kid...hzaha

 

[revolve]

I beg to differ.
I think Ne is responsible for greatness as well as nonsense. It's a bit like the monkeys at the typewriter.
You need a lot of ENTPs and ENFPs messing around and then one will eventually hit greatness.
Other types will probably be more mediocre... but you need mediocrity. It's safer. I am sure there are a lot of failed geniuses among the Ne users.
Which of the functions is the most useful depends on what you need.

As a Ne user, I'm messing around a lot trying to hit the greatness. Luckily, I've got a lot of help (in the guise of an External Te) to keep a steady job in the meantime.

- - - this guys got it

 

[SillySapienne]

Ne...

vs.

Ni...

 

[Eric B]

How is this comparison:

(I forget where that other thread with images showing connections was).

 

[visaisahero]

z
Ne:

"I woke up late in the morning therefore I missed the bus to work which could have had a nasty guy spitting on me which could have carried a disease which could have made me sick therefore I am happy I woke up late... but what if because I'm late my boss shouts at me and he has a disease worse than the guy at the bus and makes me even more sick and I suffer more thus making me not go to work for a longer period of time and the boss is so satisfied with my temporary replacement he fires me and I end up with no job causing me to be bankrupt and live on the streets because of the difficulty of finding a job... etc."

It is more focused on the 'could be'.

WHAT Ne REALLY IS LIKE (edit: ... to me, at least >_>):

"Oh look, that person spat to the side as he walked past me. Man, that's disgusting. Hmm. Why am I disgusted? Why do people spit, and why is it considered to be a universally derogatory act? Some cultures perceive different meanings from the same gesture (such as, say, slurping up your food) but spitting seems to be frowned upon everywhere!

Actually, wait- that's not true... spitting is considered reasonably acceptable in China, after all. (But could that be simply a socio-economic thing rather than a cultural thing? Can you ever really separate the two? I think not...) But spitting on another person, or in response to a person's action- that's definitely derogatory, isn't it? I suppose it's the bodily fluid... it probably goes way back to prehistoric times? It's like a simplified version of taking a piss on someone, an act of contamination, of degradation- reducing the other individual to a receptacle for bodily waste.

I wonder if some people have a fetish for being spat on? It's fairly consistent with other degrading acts... or is it? Actually, is something still considered degrading if the other party anticipates it? If you genuinely enjoy it... It's kind of like whipping a masochist, isn't it? Can you punish someone by forcing them to do something that would otherwise enjoy doing? Suppose I had a fetish for being spat on, and this poor gentleman spat on me intending to offend me, but instead excited me sexually! That would be rather amusing... I mean, hypothetically speaking, of course.

===

It is important to note that Ne isn't nearly as "random" as it seems. It's more of like a rapidly expanding network, or web, or hentai tentacle monster. Where possible, the different bits diverge and reunite, enriched by the process- sort of like Wikipedia!