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Thread: Ne and Ni

  1. #71
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Giving it another go:

    Extraverted Intuition makes you aware of the wider context of whatever is being perceived, allowing you to create interesting responses and alter meaning on-the-fly. From this standpoint, context is inferred from what can be observed and otherwise outwardly perceived, like following a link labelled "relevant websites".

    [youtube=1ioBZ5fNJO8]Ne[/youtube]

    Introverted Intuition makes you aware of all the potential frameworks that could be applied to a situation, changing the meaning by simply approaching things in a different way. You're not "looking" for a wider context in the observable world, you're shifting perspective. From this standpoint, context is inferred from the assumptions we bring into the world, like changing the lens on a camera.

    [youtube=FO214IFRW1M]Ni[/youtube]
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  2. #72
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    VF, great contributions in this thread, cleared up a lot for me. The above videos showed it pretty well I thought.

    I have to say the cescritpion in the OP just sounds like what I always thought Ti is:
    "Why did that person spit to the side as he walked past me? Does he know me? Did he do it without thinking? Perhaps he spat just because he had something in his mouth and coincidentally I was there when he spat. But then again perhaps not. He could have also done it because he doesn't like the way I look, or dress, or my posture. Hmmm.. Maybe it's a sign. Maybe he's telling me something without being direct. He's wearing a similar scarf therefore he probably despised the idea of me wearing one too. Maybe he wants to see my reaction. He's not looking back so perhaps he expects me to go to him and ask him why he did that. Perhaps there is a person with a camera nearby video taping this. Maybe he is good though. Maybe he is indicating he is sick and wants me to stay away from him. Too noble. He's definitely up to something... "
    Regarding Ni not being led by observation, I would agree with your other approach better, where you said to compare the percieving fucntions to their Sensing counterparts, in order to better understand them. I am not expert on MBTI but when people say that Ni just "comes out of the mind" (as someone basically said I can't remember who), then it begs the question: where do the thoughts in the mind come from? The human mind is a material entity which can consciosuly percieve, analyze and operate on the world around it, playing on possibilities inherent in reality and imagining parallel realities based on that, but not something that can create its own concepts irrespective of the external material world. Matter can exist without consciousness but no consciousness exists without matter.

    So I like the Se-Ni and Si-Ne approach. Or alternatively, comapring Se to Ne and Si to Ni. If we look at this, then we can see that Se leads to responding to the concrete reality around you and "sensing" opportunities, truths, dangers, and just the sensations, of the moment as they come up, whereas Ne lives in the realm of ideas around it, and "intuits" the opportunities, truths, dangers and meaning of them as they come up.

    Likewise Si stores past concrete experiences and then checks reality against them, assimilating or rejecting them based on this whereas Ni stores past understandings of ideas and then synthesizes or rejects new concepts on this basis, which is obviously not a static, but a very dynamic process, i.e. you have a synthesis of ideas in your mind forming a whole, and then each new theory is either synhtesized into this, improving the whole or rejected.

    Or was that just bullshit? I have to say, it's the only way I can make sense of Ni especially and function theory in general.

    Likewise, I feel we need to use the concept of "shadow functions" more, because otherwise the model I proposed above doesn't work, but I think I'll make another thread about that.:s
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  3. #73
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    Ne is the second most effective function, next to Ti. Think about it, INTPs and ENTPs are the most intelligent types for the reason of their fluid knowledge and abilities to think far far far outside the box.

    Some may argue that INTJs and ENTJs are the most intelligent, but history begs to differ. ENTPs and INTPs have always proved themselves to be the greatest in the field of science, entertainment, or whatever they put their mind to. The preference and ability to come up with other ideas as a constant is a great trait.

    The 5 best types, based on what area of expertise affects the world best (if you have a viable argument, please, tell), INTP (Smartest), INFP (Most creative), INTJ (Most analytical), ENTJ (Most pragmatic), ENTP (Most innovative). Seconded by: ENFP (Most 'talented' or 'inspiring'), INFJ (Most compassionate).

    Anyways, to the point. Ne and Ni are useful in different ways entirely, but in my supported opinion (as the 4/5 types listed above have Ne), Ne has proven most useful.

  4. #74
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    To me, Ne and Ni are connected. Very strongly.

    Ne seems to be a little bit more introverted than Se. It starts from something it observes but associates and associates and after the third or fourth step, the things you are dreaming/thinking have nothing to do any more with what you observe. Has it then turned into Ni?

    I've always had this impression that Ni is somehow more structured than Ne, probably because Ni is the main perceiving function of the NJs, which are methodical Judgers. I don't know if this is right or if it is the extraverted judging function rather than the introverted perceiving function which makes the Judgers methodical.

    These are the images I get whenever I think of Ne and Ni:

    Ne is the randomly, madly associating brainstormer; it draws your attention to new ideas and concepts; it jumps about from one idea to the other whenever triggered by an observation.

    Ni is the one which groups your experiences into concepts; it can retrieve "how to make hot water" from your memory when asked how to make hot chocolate; it is responsible for the transfer of knowledge to other domains.
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  5. #75
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stained View Post
    Ne is the second most effective function, next to Ti. Think about it, INTPs and ENTPs are the most intelligent types for the reason of their fluid knowledge and abilities to think far far far outside the box.

    Some may argue that INTJs and ENTJs are the most intelligent, but history begs to differ. ENTPs and INTPs have always proved themselves to be the greatest in the field of science, entertainment, or whatever they put their mind to. The preference and ability to come up with other ideas as a constant is a great trait.

    The 5 best types, based on what area of expertise affects the world best (if you have a viable argument, please, tell), INTP (Smartest), INFP (Most creative), INTJ (Most analytical), ENTJ (Most pragmatic), ENTP (Most innovative). Seconded by: ENFP (Most 'talented' or 'inspiring'), INFJ (Most compassionate).

    Anyways, to the point. Ne and Ni are useful in different ways entirely, but in my supported opinion (as the 4/5 types listed above have Ne), Ne has proven most useful.
    I beg to differ.
    I think Ne is responsible for greatness as well as nonsense. It's a bit like the monkeys at the typewriter.
    You need a lot of ENTPs and ENFPs messing around and then one will eventually hit greatness.
    Other types will probably be more mediocre... but you need mediocrity. It's safer. I am sure there are a lot of failed geniuses among the Ne users.
    Which of the functions is the most useful depends on what you need.

    As a Ne user, I'm messing around a lot trying to hit the greatness. Luckily, I've got a lot of help (in the guise of an External Te) to keep a steady job in the meantime.
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  6. #76
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stained View Post
    Ne is the second most effective function, next to Ti. Think about it, INTPs and ENTPs are the most intelligent types for the reason of their fluid knowledge and abilities to think far far far outside the box.

    Some may argue that INTJs and ENTJs are the most intelligent, but history begs to differ. ENTPs and INTPs have always proved themselves to be the greatest in the field of science, entertainment, or whatever they put their mind to. The preference and ability to come up with other ideas as a constant is a great trait.

    The 5 best types, based on what area of expertise affects the world best (if you have a viable argument, please, tell), INTP (Smartest), INFP (Most creative), INTJ (Most analytical), ENTJ (Most pragmatic), ENTP (Most innovative). Seconded by: ENFP (Most 'talented' or 'inspiring'), INFJ (Most compassionate).

    Anyways, to the point. Ne and Ni are useful in different ways entirely, but in my supported opinion (as the 4/5 types listed above have Ne), Ne has proven most useful.
    How ridiculously Ne-biased!

    1) There are multiple forms of intelligence; NPs are not the "smartest types" unless you're judging intelligence from a limited Ne perspective.

    2) All of your assertions that these skills are the "best" are purely subjective and based on (you guessed it) bias toward Ne.

    3) You probably auto-type every talented/influential person you admire as an N because you have a grossly slanted negative view of S types.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #77
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stained View Post
    Ne is the second most effective function, next to Ti. Think about it, INTPs and ENTPs are the most intelligent types for the reason of their fluid knowledge and abilities to think far far far outside the box.

    Some may argue that INTJs and ENTJs are the most intelligent, but history begs to differ. ENTPs and INTPs have always proved themselves to be the greatest in the field of science, entertainment, or whatever they put their mind to. The preference and ability to come up with other ideas as a constant is a great trait.

    The 5 best types, based on what area of expertise affects the world best (if you have a viable argument, please, tell), INTP (Smartest), INFP (Most creative), INTJ (Most analytical), ENTJ (Most pragmatic), ENTP (Most innovative). Seconded by: ENFP (Most 'talented' or 'inspiring'), INFJ (Most compassionate).

    Anyways, to the point. Ne and Ni are useful in different ways entirely, but in my supported opinion (as the 4/5 types listed above have Ne), Ne has proven most useful.
    Talented?? I resent that comment.

  8. #78
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stained View Post
    Ne is the second most effective function, next to Ti. Think about it, INTPs and ENTPs are the most intelligent types for the reason of their fluid knowledge and abilities to think far far far outside the box.

    Some may argue that INTJs and ENTJs are the most intelligent, but history begs to differ. ENTPs and INTPs have always proved themselves to be the greatest in the field of science, entertainment, or whatever they put their mind to. The preference and ability to come up with other ideas as a constant is a great trait.

    The 5 best types, based on what area of expertise affects the world best (if you have a viable argument, please, tell), INTP (Smartest), INFP (Most creative), INTJ (Most analytical), ENTJ (Most pragmatic), ENTP (Most innovative). Seconded by: ENFP (Most 'talented' or 'inspiring'), INFJ (Most compassionate).

    Anyways, to the point. Ne and Ni are useful in different ways entirely, but in my supported opinion (as the 4/5 types listed above have Ne), Ne has proven most useful.
    No, they just make the most noise about it.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  9. #79
    *hmmms* theadoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    No, they just make the most noise about it.
    True
    Oh yeah?

  10. #80
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    To me, Ne and Ni are connected. Very strongly.

    Ne seems to be a little bit more introverted than Se. It starts from something it observes but associates and associates and after the third or fourth step, the things you are dreaming/thinking have nothing to do any more with what you observe. Has it then turned into Ni?

    I've always had this impression that Ni is somehow more structured than Ne, probably because Ni is the main perceiving function of the NJs, which are methodical Judgers. I don't know if this is right or if it is the extraverted judging function rather than the introverted perceiving function which makes the Judgers methodical.

    These are the images I get whenever I think of Ne and Ni:

    Ne is the randomly, madly associating brainstormer; it draws your attention to new ideas and concepts; it jumps about from one idea to the other whenever triggered by an observation.

    Ni is the one which groups your experiences into concepts; it can retrieve "how to make hot water" from your memory when asked how to make hot chocolate; it is responsible for the transfer of knowledge to other domains.
    I really like what you have to say regarding the functions. But I think the bolded is more Si, the function associated with memory and how it feels to repeat things, isn't it? Ni to me would say: Is this a good time for hot chocolate? Is hot chocolate the best thing I could drink right now? And contemplate what the South American cocoa farmers had to do to deliver me my hot cocoa while I sipped it..........
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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