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Thread: Ne and Ni

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    No no, What could happen is Ne. Ne is looking at the possibilities of what could happen from many different angles which was my example. Si is more like I'll do what I normally do every day as this is what is known to me. It is my tradition and I'll keep myself safe from only doing what already works.
    Ne is a lot of 'what if' situations. It is curious. What if this happened. Then this could happen. But what if this happened. This could happen which is what I was projecting by my example. The example I've shown is using Ne in real life situations. I could very well have said Ne is thinking like:

    "Three hundred aliens attack from outer space causing the world to split in half and then 500 penguins fly towards the aliens defeating them causing the penguins to become the smartest race in the world who start enslaving humans for fun."

    It's the same only in a more fantasy world. The same manner is used in science where something is figured out leading to the next thing.
    But how is fantasy external? You are talking external perception, but keep referring to internal thoughts. To me you seem to be seeing the end result of Ne which is ultimately Si.

    edit: let me rephrase that your examples cause me to see the end result which is ultimately Si. Dont know how many others get the same impression.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #32
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    But how is fantasy external? You are talking external perception, but keep referring to internal thoughts. To me you seem to be seeing the end result of Ne which is ultimately Si.

    edit: let me rephrase that your examples cause me to see the end result which is ultimately Si. Dont know how many others get the same impression.
    *sigh* Si does not look at the possibilities and the unknown. It looks at what we already have. Ne looks at the possibilities and the unknown. It isn't interested in what we already have. Therefore Ne will look towards the future and try to think of the different possibilities and opportunities of what is to come. Positive and negative. My example was an example of looking towards the future.
    If you want to know how it affects one externally it is an attitude. It is how they experience the world.

    Here's a definition.

    Extraverted Intuition (Ne) is the attitude that what is manifest (apparent, observable) is a reflection of a greater reality. The dinosaur bone hints at the dinosaur, the cloud hints at the coming thunderstorm, the thunderstorm is a reflection of the rotation of the Earth within its atmosphere. Whatever you find, there is something more to find: a broader context, a whole, which will change your understanding of the part.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    *sigh* Si does not look at the possibilities and the unknown. It looks at what we already have. Ne looks at the possibilities and the unknown. It isn't interested in what we already have. Therefore Ne will look towards the future and try to think of the different possibilities and opportunities of what is to come. Positive and negative. My example was an example of looking towards the future.
    If you want to know how it affects one externally it is an attitude. It is how they experience the world.

    Here's a definition.
    But all these definitions ultimately assume Si is present. A dinosaur bone does not lead to a dinosaur unless a dinosaur is already known. Hence Si(the dinosaur) must pre-exist for Ne to function in this manner. Ne is more like curiosity and tied to Te or Fe ultimately decides where it looks externally for the answers. But the kicker is the detail of the object that Ne uses to help externally find the answer is Si which is picked up from previous answers. Basically the starting point of Ne is from a visual cue and someone saying this is white. This is the essence of NeTe or NeFe. This starting point is pure Ne. The essence of a dominant Ne type, lets learn something new. Explain this to me. Se is more hand it to me I want to play with it, who cares about your explanation, I want to see how it works which leads to an internal theory.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #34
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    But all these definitions ultimately assume Si is present. A dinosaur bone does not lead to a dinosaur unless a dinosaur is already known. Hence Si(the dinosaur) must pre-exist for Ne to function in this manner. Ne is more like curiosity and tied to Te or Fe ultimately decides where it looks externally for the answers. But the kicker is the detail of the object that Ne uses to help externally find the answer is Si which is picked up from previous answers. Basically the starting point of Ne is from a visual cue and someone saying this is white. This is the essence of NeTe or NeFe. This starting point is pure Ne. The essence of a dominant Ne type, lets learn something new. Explain this to me. Se is more hand it to me I want to play with it, who cares about your explanation, I want to see how it works which leads to an internal theory.
    Oh goodness, this is so off.

    Are you trying to assert that Ne does not or cannot exist, and that all things boil down to Se or Si?

    Everything on this planet exists, whether we discover it or not. The simple fact of existence does not mean Si. That's not what Si is. Si is not all of existence.

    And why does Ne have to be tied to Te or Fe, and not Ti or Fi?

    Also, I would read OMT's post. He really makes a great point.

  5. #35
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    But all these definitions ultimately assume Si is present. A dinosaur bone does not lead to a dinosaur unless a dinosaur is already known. Hence Si(the dinosaur) must pre-exist for Ne to function in this manner. Ne is more like curiosity and tied to Te or Fe ultimately decides where it looks externally for the answers. But the kicker is the detail of the object that Ne uses to help externally find the answer is Si which is picked up from previous answers. Basically the starting point of Ne is from a visual cue and someone saying this is white. This is the essence of NeTe or NeFe. This starting point is pure Ne. The essence of a dominant Ne type, lets learn something new. Explain this to me. Se is more hand it to me I want to play with it, who cares about your explanation, I want to see how it works which leads to an internal theory.
    Ok, I see, But the transitions from one point to the next is the Ne in it's play and that is what I'm trying to get at with my example. The Si-doms wouldn't look at their lives in the same way as my example. They use what they already know to protect them from what they don't know. Not try to figure out what they don't know using what they already know.

  6. #36
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    Ne without Te goes something like this.

    This object looks similiar to this one, they must go together.

    ex. My niece grabbing a nerf bullet and forcing it into a transformer gun because they look similiar. Confusion comes in when niece grabs a stick shoves it in, sees that it fits but it wont fire. Gun must be broken.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, this is pure observation and analysis as I am not Ne.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #37
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Ne without Te goes something like this.

    This object looks similiar to this one, they must go together.

    ex. My niece grabbing a nerf bullet and forcing it into a transformer gun because they look similiar. Confusion comes in when niece grabs a stick shoves it in, sees that it fits but it wont fire. Gun must be broken.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, this is pure observation and analysis as I am not Ne.
    Can't speak for the ENFPs, but the ENTP train of thought could be one of these: what else can this gun be used for? what else can I use for bullets? I wonder if I can use this as a model for a human cannon? Can I use this nerf bullet as a sponge of some sort? why did someone design this so that anything else can be loaded into the barrel?

    I don't know, something like that, I guess. I never see anything as broken, and if I do, I take it apart to see how I can fix it or make it into something else.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Oh goodness, this is so off.

    Are you trying to assert that Ne does not or cannot exist, and that all things boil down to Se or Si?

    Everything on this planet exists, whether we discover it or not. The simple fact of existence does not mean Si. That's not what Si is. Si is not all of existence.

    And why does Ne have to be tied to Te or Fe, and not Ti or Fi?

    Also, I would read OMT's post. He really makes a great point.
    Everything starts from senses, please tell me how it cant. I am saying N cannot exist without S.

    Ne is tied to Fi and Ti in some sort or fashion, but then you end up with Ji and Pi at work. An internal judgement function in essence creates our internal perception or judges our internal perception.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Can't speak for the ENFPs, but the ENTP train of thought could be one of these: what else can this gun be used for? what else can I use for bullets? I wonder if I can use this as a model for a human cannon? Can I use this nerf bullet as a sponge of some sort? why did someone design this so that anything else can be loaded into the barrel?

    I don't know, something like that, I guess. I never see anything as broken, and if I do, I take it apart to see how I can fix it or make it into something else.
    I really dont want to change topics here but I see this thought process that I explained in ENTPS when it comes to feelings. ENTPs thinking someones feelings must be broken, couldnt have been something you did.

    Sorry I will try and flip it and reverse it next time. Initially had wonka in mind and he is ENFP.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #40
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Everything starts from senses, please tell me how it cant. I am saying N cannot exist without S.

    Ne is tied to Fi and Ti in some sort or fashion, but then you end up with Ji and Pi at work. An internal judgement function in essence creates our internal perception or judges our internal perception.
    I think you are mistaking senses with materials. Materials (dinosaur bones) exist. How you relate to them is through your senses/intuition. The mere fact that these materials exist is not Si or Se.

    How you remember and relate to the bones is the point. You can either note the texture, smell and shape. You may notice its potential. You may imagine its history or its future. You may note that it looks similar to the things you have in your own body. Se, Si, Ne or Ni are ways to relate to the world, not the world itself.

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