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Thread: Ne and Ni

  1. #131
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    I know the question of what distinguishes Ne from Ni comes up a lot and everyone has different perspectives, so if nothing else just post your own idea of what it is, and we can see about discussing and at least make sure everyone's perspectives are out there so we can pick what seems 'right' to us.

    There are probably some older threads on the topic, but I looked through some pages and only saw more specialized discussions.

    ----

    The reason I'm wondering about this is because I've pretty much 'locked in' that I use Fe with people IRL and Ti for analysis/debates/work/etc, regardless of what meaning I'm going by. And N has always been unquestionably tops. So that leaves either Ni-Fe-Ti-Se (INFJ) or Ne-Ti-Fe-Se (ENTP).

    Based on my apparent overuse of Ti, many people want to pin me as ENTP. But on the other hand, a lot of comparisons consist of "Ni-Te" vs "Ne-Ti" interactions - in debates and humour and so on, so it's hard to discern where Ti ends and some sort of N begins. I'd rather leave it up to a more general examination of Ni vs. Ne, because I feel like that's really the crux of the difference. In my case, I'm interested in the interactions of Ni-Fe, Ni-Ti, Ne-Ti, and Ne-Fe, but the inverse is probably relevant to some other people so by all means, go all-out.

    For this reason, please don't just post "You seem [type/function] to me" unless it will help contextualize your explanation.
    Do you think that you're "overusing" Ti simply because your preference for it is atypical, or because it's not helping you grow as a human being?

    ---------------------------------

    Intuition is concerned with possibilities. It possesses a subjective element in that it calls upon the energy of imagination, reading in between the lines, and toying with assumptions. Jung described intuition as a conduit between the conscious and the unconscious because it functions to perceive "random" ideas in spite of the already established.

    The difference between introverted intuition and extraverted intuition is that... Well, this topic has been debated to the point of smoldering because intuition defies fixed perceptions and definitions.

    I think Saturned has the right idea.

    From Ne, we would island hop from one idea to the next, at times not even pursuing a single one to the very end. This is because Ne is so general that you're not going to stay on a single I'm going to go play Left 4 Dead 2 ...

    The thing about Ni, and why it is so accurate, is that it's precise and that it abstracts:

    Abstraction. A form of mental activity by which a conscious content is freed from its association with irrelevant elements, similar to the process of differentiation. (Compare empathy.)

    Abstraction is an activity pertaining to the psychological functions in general. There is an abstract thinking, just as there is abstract feeling, sensation, and intuition. Abstract thinking singles out the rational, logical qualities of a given content from its intellectually irrelevant components. Abstract feeling does the same with a content characterized by its feeling-values . . . . Abstract sensation would be aesthetic as opposed to sensuous sensation, and abstract intuition would be symbolic as opposed to fantastic intuition.["Definitions," CW 6, par. 678.]

    Jung related abstraction to introversion (analogous to empathy and extraversion).

    I visualize the process of abstraction as a withdrawal of libido from the object, as a backflow of value from the object into a subjective, abstract content. For me, therefore, abstraction amounts to an energic devaluation of the object. In other words, abstraction is an introverting movement of libido.[Ibid., par. 679.]

    To the extent that its purpose is to break the object's hold on the subject, abstraction is an attempt to rise above the primitive state of participation mystique.

    So Ni is going to find diamonds in the rough. Personal significance through symbolism. Disregarding distraction, much unlike Ne.

  2. #132
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Ne is funnier.

  3. #133
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Ne



    Ni
    Thanks.

  4. #134
    Anew Leaf
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    P.S. for what it's worth, you seem far more likely as an INFJ than an ENTP.

  5. #135
    Ginkgo
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    Jung's definitions are excruciatingly pedantic. I don't think I would have the patience, though I admire the work.

    So here's something interesting about Ni:

    Although this intuition may receive its impetus from outer objects, it is never arrested by the external possibilities, but stays with that factor which the outer object releases within.
    That means to Ni, objects themselves are essentially static. You uncover their meaning, mold them to your own vision and move on. Extraverted intuition would have the temptation to mold the object itself and discover the object's potential.

  6. #136
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Ne is random, tangential, and follows it's own bizarre path through the shrubbery maze. Ne is the idea generator that comes up with hundreds, thousands, millions of possibilities. Ne likes/needs something else to play with it to be at its best.

    Ni goes it alone. Walks into the swarming cloud of ideas and plucks one (at seemingly random to the Ne observer) and says, "This is the right one." And by gum, it usually is the right one.
    Hrm...but couldn't 'plucking one' also symbolize Ne-Ti or Ne-Fi - that is, thinking of as many possibilities as possible and picking the best one according to what they think the criteria are(T)/what their criteria are(F)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    it is hard to imagine not knowing if you were infj or entp...they seem sooo different to me....infjs are like the all knowing oracle...sitting there all poised with pure eloquence spilling from their lips...while ne doms are spazzy lil plate spinners telling jokes and doing tricks.
    You'd think, but that's just the archetypes. In practice they are quite similar if their tertiary is developed - Ti-Fe for ENTPs, and Fe-Ti for INFJs. The difference is, supposedly, in 'how' their idea platform (N) works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Intuition is concerned with possibilities. It possesses a subjective element in that it calls upon the energy of imagination, reading in between the lines, and toying with assumptions. Jung described intuition as a conduit between the conscious and the unconscious because it functions to perceive "random" ideas in spite of the already established.

    The difference between introverted intuition and extraverted intuition is that... Well, this topic has been debated to the point of smoldering because intuition defies fixed perceptions and definitions.
    haha, yes, I noticed >.> but still, I think we can get at it somehow, especially if many different people of different types share their experiences of it, so that we can get an all-angles view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I think Saturned has the right idea.

    From Ne, we would island hop from one idea to the next, at times not even pursuing a single one to the very end. This is because Ne is so general that you're not going to stay on a single I'm going to go play Left 4 Dead 2 ...

    The thing about Ni, and why it is so accurate, is that it's precise and that it abstracts:

    Abstraction. A form of mental activity by which a conscious content is freed from its association with irrelevant elements, similar to the process of differentiation. (Compare empathy.)

    Abstraction is an activity pertaining to the psychological functions in general. There is an abstract thinking, just as there is abstract feeling, sensation, and intuition. Abstract thinking singles out the rational, logical qualities of a given content from its intellectually irrelevant components. Abstract feeling does the same with a content characterized by its feeling-values . . . . Abstract sensation would be aesthetic as opposed to sensuous sensation, and abstract intuition would be symbolic as opposed to fantastic intuition.["Definitions," CW 6, par. 678.]

    Jung related abstraction to introversion (analogous to empathy and extraversion).

    I visualize the process of abstraction as a withdrawal of libido from the object, as a backflow of value from the object into a subjective, abstract content. For me, therefore, abstraction amounts to an energic devaluation of the object. In other words, abstraction is an introverting movement of libido.[Ibid., par. 679.]

    To the extent that its purpose is to break the object's hold on the subject, abstraction is an attempt to rise above the primitive state of participation mystique.

    So Ni is going to find diamonds in the rough. Personal significance through symbolism. Disregarding distraction, much unlike Ne.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Jung's definitions are excruciatingly pedantic. I don't think I would have the patience, though I admire the work.
    Oof. I've been told that Jung's Psychological Types isn't really useful outside the context of his whole bibliography, because a lot of these concepts like 'symbolic' and 'energic devaluation' are more rigorously explored and defined in his other books - this particular chapter which everyone references is full of idiosyncrasies that can lead us astray of his intended meaning :s

    Would one say that Ni 'snags' on certain ideas? or is that again a combination of N with a judging function.
    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Ne is funnier.
    vOv
    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    P.S. for what it's worth, you seem far more likely as an INFJ than an ENTP.
    Thanks :s
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Do you think that you're "overusing" Ti simply because your preference for it is atypical, or because it's not helping you grow as a human being?
    Because I don't really prefer it... I use it a lot because it's my main way of putting things into terms that others can understand, and of keeping my imagination in check. Fe is a lot more fun/interesting/natural to me, when I'm not a zombie. (lol did not see your L4D analogy before typing this)
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  7. #137
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    also Ni(like all introverted functions) can do this:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon
    Abstraction
    A form of mental activity by which a conscious content is freed from its association with irrelevant elements, similar to the process of differentiation. (Compare empathy.)


    "Abstraction is an activity pertaining to the psychological functions in general. There is an abstract thinking, just as there is abstract feeling, sensation, and intuition. Abstract thinking singles out the rational, logical qualities of a given content from its intellectually irrelevant components. Abstract feeling does the same with a content characterized by its feeling-values . . . . Abstract sensation would be aesthetic as opposed to sensuous sensation, and abstract intuition would be symbolic as opposed to fantastic intuition.["Definitions," CW 6, par. 678.]"

    Jung related abstraction to introversion (analogous to empathy and extraversion).

    "I visualize the process of abstraction as a withdrawal of libido from the object, as a backflow of value from the object into a subjective, abstract content. For me, therefore, abstraction amounts to an energic devaluation of the object. In other words, abstraction is an introverting movement of libido.[Ibid., par. 679.]"

    To the extent that its purpose is to break the object’s hold on the subject, abstraction is an attempt to rise above the primitive state of participation mystique.
    and Ne(like all extraverted functions) can do this:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon
    Empathy
    An introjection of the object, based on the unconscious projection of subjective contents. (Compare identification.)


    "Empathy presupposes a subjective attitude of confidence, or trustfulness towards the object. It is a readiness to meet the object halfway, a subjective assimilation that brings about a good understanding between subject and object, or at least simulates it. ["The Type Problem in Aesthetics," CW 6, par. 489.]"

    In contrast to abstraction, associated with introversion, empathy corresponds to the attitude of extraversion.

    "The man with the empathetic attitude finds himself . . . in a world that needs his subjective feeling to give it life and soul. He animates it with himself. [ Ibid., par. 492.]"
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  8. #138
    Ginkgo
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    My Ne manifests itself usually in the form of imagining plausible dialogue between people. It's kind of like having a cushion between you, the observer, and the possibilities that lay out there over the rainbow. I imagine that cushion and those things in many different fashions, and can make assumptions based on what can be observed even elsewhere. It's all a fabric of teaming life. I frequently think globally; walking to the general store stokes imaginings of what shop keepers are keeping in their basements on the other side of the earth. Watching a presentation rouses suspicion about the motives of the people involved, what their underlying technique is, and how they came to be where they are. The audience consists of it's own demographic, meshed into the scheme of larger people, and ideas will surface about how these people relate. We speak. Communication winds around cognition and affect. What do they feel, why? How do they think? What images are recorded in their minds' eye? How drastically do they differ under different contexts? Where's the inspiration of a novel derived from? Contents; are they original? Is anything original? Is the colloquial "originality" just a rehash of so many particular recycled ideas that it's reshaped into the seemingly original? Why does that lady have a machine gun for legs? Are you insulting my intelligence by expecting me to be appealed by this nonsense? Do you have a messiah complex? Mister director, do you know what it's like being in this man-goat costume in 117 degree weather? It's like living in Gila Monster turd. Please, if you've had any experience being an actor, empathize with the crew here. I know I'm risking my job in being this upfront with you, seeing as you're an asshole and all, but it's for the good of the project. Fantasia Babes 4000 needs to be a blockbuster. I need this to put food on the table. Times are hard, and it's understandable that you have a stick clinging to the ribs of your colon, chaffing away at the tissue like a grain of sand chaffes at the vulnerable underbelly of a clam. We French don't listen to reason. I demand a refund.

    And so on.

  9. #139
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Ne = cut and paste, quoted responses
    Ni = very selective or just responding holistically

  10. #140
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