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S-Practical/N-Theoretical Divide is Nonsense

Randomnity

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What I really believe is that the S/N divide can be overcome by training and experience. And successful people overcome the S/N barrier related to their work if their work required it.
This, only for every trait. Though preferences will probably still remain.

I doubt I'll ever get near that ideal though - not motivated enough.

Many jobs require a good knowledge of "N areas" and "S areas" at the same time, because for many things both are important for a good overall result.
 

highlander

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Two of the most theoretical types I know were tested as "off the charts" ESTJ. They have spent a lot of time working together. When I say theoretical, it is a tendency to over-engineer solutions to problems to an extent that they are too costly to implement and the value derived from the solutions is insufficient. You end up with a lot lot of interesting solutions to problems which are wonderfully thought through but that nobody ever really implements, though they may take pieces and parts of it. All great thinking but too complex. It has always been perplexing to me.
 

human101

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some girls like football some boys like knitting
 

onemoretime

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N's inventions are very concrete. Nothing theoretical about the graphic interface on the computer I'm using to type this comment.

Because a string of ones and zeroes representing various wavelengths and intensities of light arranged in a broad matrix transmitted by electrical pulses arranged by gates consisting of metallic channels partially blocked by semiconductor doping is something that is clear on the surface, and didn't require any theory in designing. Please.

You know what's the difference? Sensors take in sensory data holistically (one big picture) and interpret it that way. Intuitives take in sensory data in a compartmental fashion (focusing on various component parts) and interpret it that way. What's done with that data depends on whether that function is introverted or extraverted. That's it.
 

VagrantFarce

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You know what's the difference? Sensors take in sensory data holistically (one big picture) and interpret it that way. Intuitives take in sensory data in a compartmental fashion (focusing on various component parts) and interpret it that way. What's done with that data depends on whether that function is introverted or extraverted. That's it.

bleehhhhhhhhh

compartmentalization is more of a T thing, holistic thinking has little to do with it

the difference really is: intuition sees the forest, sensation sees the trees. the overall context vs the little details
 

onemoretime

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bleehhhhhhhhh

compartmentalization is more of a T thing, holistic thinking has little to do with it

the difference really is: intuition sees the forest, sensation sees the trees. the overall context vs the little details

NFs take the compartmentalized information and filter it through their Feeling judgment function; that's why it's rarely seen in outside reality.

It's more like intuition sees a forest, and then a single tree in the forest, and when asked to recollect that forest, the individual tree will be the starting point of that cognitive process. Sensing sees the forest, takes all the details of the forest into account, and when asked to recollect that forest, will start with the entire picture.

N is lossy data input, S is lossless data input. Both are subject to data rot.
 

BlueScreen

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One difference I've noticed is ordered vs relative thinking. Though I'm not sure if that holds across all N/S types. For example Se types I know will best remember things that have a definite reference in space or detail. Whereas N will prefer to remember things by patterns and where they sit relative to other things.

In the memory game for example, with all cards in lines an Se might say the card is the third from the left in the second row. An Ne would look at it and struggle to see any defining pattern in the region just long lines of cards, so resort to other less natural methods. If the cards are scattered, the Se will try to find ordered references again, but find it harder. The N this time will see local differences between various regions and feel far more comfortable.
 

wildcat

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Never believed this because I'm strong N and don't walk around talking about theories all day. Meanwhile, a good friend of mine is strong S, and uses a lot of big words to express what could be said far more simply. While exhibiting many S traits, the last thing you would call him is "practical".

While I think it's harder to tell S/N apart than the other 3, whether someone is "practical" tells you nothing. No idea is practical if it can't be used. The iPhone, bifocals, and light bulb were all invented by strong N's, and are very practical. Difference is they required looking ahead, and this to me is the biggest distinction between S and N - S lives in the moment, N lives in the future, but you can't say one is more practical than the other.

One of the common traits of ADHD, mostly an N diagnosis, is impending doom. As an N, I can understand this, because I naturally think about how what I'm doing now will impact the future. Many NPs I know are best motivated by work that alters how people will do things in the future, even if it relates to something small - like changing how an industry orders parts from suppliers. Everything can be improved upon. Also noticed many NPs sometimes care a lot less about money if they feel their work will impact the future. Ss on the other hand will be happy making an impact immediately.

I think this time distinction tells you a lot more about S/N then whether someone discusses theories. Some of that is the result of individual experience, not innate type.
PRACTICAL

hard headed
matter of fact
not speculative

adjusted
not visionary
skilled
able
au fait
useful
virtual
effective
impatient with theory

Read what you wrote.
Think again.
It is never too late.
 

human101

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PRACTICAL

hard headedmatter of fact
not speculative

adjusted
not visionary
skilled
able
au fait
useful
virtual
effective
impatient with theory

Read what you wrote.
Think again.
It is never too late.

i think Ns are more hard headed harder to influence
 

compulsiverambler

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While I think it's harder to tell S/N apart than the other 3, whether someone is "practical" tells you nothing. No idea is practical if it can't be used. The iPhone, bifocals, and light bulb were all invented by strong N's, and are very practical. Difference is they required looking ahead, and this to me is the biggest distinction between S and N - S lives in the moment, N lives in the future, but you can't say one is more practical than the other.

Si lives more in the past, Se more in the present and immediate future, Ni more in the medium to long term future, Ne more in la la land.

One of the common traits of ADHD, mostly an N diagnosis, is impending doom. As an N, I can understand this, because I naturally think about how what I'm doing now will impact the future.
Mostly an N diagnosis? I've looked and see no research suggesting that, and my experiences contradict it.

Actually what you describe (always thinking of the future) is in a sense the opposite of the ADHD symptom of impulsivity (note: this is not the same as spontaneity. Most spontaneous people have a healthy capacity to become aware of negative potentials of their impulses in the microseconds needed before acting them out). The impulsivity (also called disinhibition) of ADHD means not being aware of any future implications of an impulse in time to prevent it being acted out. The part of the brain that extremely rapidly alerts humans to any likely negative consequences of our immediate impulses is smaller and defective in people with ADHD, so it's more frequently too late to stop us.

The anxiety disorders and sense of impending doom commonly found with untreated ADHD are more likely conditioned by experience. When you live a lifetime of everything you touch turning to shit before you even notice you've touched it, being wound up like a spring in preparation for the worst (we do on average have higher levels of cortisol, the stress hormone, in our blood) is an unfortunate way of compensating for the inability to foresee and prevent painful experiences occurring in the first place.
 

BlueScreen

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ADHD correlates with NP on most things I've seen. Whether they are accurate, I'm not sure.
 

compulsiverambler

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ADHD correlates with NP on most things I've seen. Whether they are accurate, I'm not sure.
What things are they? Are you talking about a statistical correlation between the two groups, or about characteristics you believe they have in common?
 

Randomnity

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ADHD correlates with NP on most things I've seen. Whether they are accurate, I'm not sure.
Are you sure it's not just P that correlates? I have little experience with ADHD but had always heard that there is significant overlap with SP, which makes more sense to me. Especially ESxP. NPs might find it hard to pay attention but I'm not sure it appears the same as ADHD. .
 

miss fortune

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oooh... it annoys me so much when people stick with long dead theories as the gospel truth instead of realizing that they should just be an idea to work with, applying it to what you know, changing it some and coming up with something that works better :steam:

Really- you strict Jungians are stuck in the past! :tongue:

I really find it ironic when those who don't change theories with the times make fun of SJs! If we didn't change theories with the times we'd still be stuck on the flat earth theory with the stars and sun rotating around US!

I think that the functions are a lot more fluid than we're giving them credit for- there's grey areas where there's overlaps and tints to functions based on strengths of other functions, which according to theory shouldn't even be in our typological makeup- I'd say that it's quite possible to be a strong Ne with a definite Se streak or a Si who has the foresight and creativity to use what s/he has and do something else... you're all looking at this in MUCH too much of a concrete manner... it's not either/or- we're not talking Schroedinger's cat here! :yes:

While I'm not going to claim in the least that I'm practical (I'm notoriously impractical in the minds of my real life friends :dry:) but I am certainly capable of living in the moment and enjoying sensations as they come to me... and of taking theories and making them work, instead of just sticking to what IS

The idea that there is a distinct S/N divide just doesn't sit right with me- there would be a difference between extremes, but very few people ever fall there- I'd think that the divide would be more like the bell curve on IQ... most people having qualities that fall into both camps- even if it's uncool to admit it when the sites have a definite bias towards iNtuition (though I've got to say, it's A LOT better now than when I first joined!)

sorry for the minor rant here- I just concluded that too many people here are stuck in the past ;)
 

compulsiverambler

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Are you sure it's not just P that correlates? I have little experience with ADHD but had always heard that there is significant overlap with SP, which makes more sense to me. Especially ESxP. NPs might find it hard to pay attention but I'm not sure it appears the same as ADHD. .
ADHD will correlate with stereotypically unhealthy P behaviour (lack of organisation and planning) but not preference, and therefore not true P. Personality is a collection of preferences, not abilities. Conflating ADHD with a P preference is like conflating crippling asthma with a personal dislike of exercise. Only one of the two can run far if they want or have to, and only one of the two can effectively structure their activities if they want or have to.
 

BlueScreen

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Are you sure it's not just P that correlates? I have little experience with ADHD but had always heard that there is significant overlap with SP, which makes more sense to me. Especially ESxP. NPs might find it hard to pay attention but I'm not sure it appears the same as ADHD. .

I have no idea, that's why I was being sort of vague. I'd just seen stuff around that said that ADHD correlated with NP. Maybe because a lot of studies involved internet forums and typology which NPs seem to turn up more to. Or maybe it was NPs get misdiagnosed a lot as ADHD because they are sort of random and non-traditional by nature.
 

Wonkavision

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I suspect that at least one correlation between ADHD and NPs is that many NPs would probably be mis-diagnosed as having ADHD.

Someone who thinks on multiple tracks simultaneously and works naturally in fits and starts rather than slow and steady could easily be seen by others as having some kind of "disorder".

Most people, even professional psychologists, are likely to make this mistake if they don't subscribe to personality type theory, temperament theory, multiple intelligence theory, etc...which many, apparently, do not.
 
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