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INxP; high Ti and Fi?

sofmarhof

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Apr 30, 2009
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327
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INTP
On tests which only consider the four dichotomies, I score INTP pretty consistently, but on tests of the 8 functions, I keep getting a very high Fi score, even higher than Ti.

I'm not asking to be typed, because when I read type descriptions, INTP is far more accurate than INFP, so I'm sure that's what I am. I'm hoping to find INTPs who use Fi, INFPs who use Ti, or any INxPs who had difficulty deciding between the two, for a little discussion.

Basically, what's the deal? I want to talk about this but I don't have any good questions to get the discussion going.
 

VagrantFarce

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Tests aren't 100% accurate, especially the cognitive functions test, which pretty much throws the 16 types out of the window. :)

I've been throwing around these two descriptions in a couple of threads, since this is coming up a lot. At first I thought I had a "high Fi" as well, but after reading up on it I'm pretty sure I was just confusing it with Fe. :)

Ti said:
Introverted Thinking (Ti) often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.

Try not to confuse Introverted Thinking with "being smart", it's more about being able to identify logical coherence. It manifests in behaviour like wanting to clarify something that someone else has said, even if it seems kinda anal to do so. :)

Fi said:
I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system...I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.

Remember, try not to confuse Introverted Feeling with just "being sensitive". :) It's about having values and remaining congruent with them, or feeling them to be challenged by others or circumstance.
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
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Aug 7, 2009
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1,954
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ENTJ
My INFP friend scored really high on both Ti and Fi, with Ti slightl higher, but we have concluded that Ti is something she has learned to use very well (due to being a philosophy student) and Fi is her natural primary function.

Yeah that doesn't really help at all but I'm trying to reach 1000 post count.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
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May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
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INFP
I think I have Ti/Fi fight going on... I used to be very much a T when I was younger, and probably would have scored INTP. I still think I use Ti quite much but the INFP description suits me better.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
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I think the two functions are very similar, in the way Ti and Fi dominant people construct and use their view of the world. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes--I've known some of the INxPs you're talking about. :D

In fact, I often just think of Ti as a "logical Fi."
 
Last edited:

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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I think Fi also gets associated with 'searching for your identity and finding yourself." Usually if people type me and pick something other than INTP, it is INFP... because I focus a lot of personal growth and insight and introspection on the personal level, as well as examining and trying to grasp/actualize others.

But basically I did not really try to find my "personal values" until my 30's. Until then I was driven by what I could observe and theorize as true. Whether something was true or not is what mattered to me, even if it wasn't something I personally wanted to believe or accept; I always submitted to what my rationality told me was most likely to be true. I would also get angry inside and even disdainful of people who seemed to prioritize what they wanted, what they felt, and what they valued at other people's expense or without consideration of rationality and fairness to other people.

It wasn't until mid-life where I started trying to figure out how I felt about things personally, and started to acknowledge that maybe my personal feelings and values should play a role in my commitments, life direction and choices, etc. That life was more fulfilling if I actually accepted I had subjective feelings and views on things and needed to live in more accordance with them rather than just what I could best rationalize about the world external to me.
 

BlueGray

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I'm a definite INTP with high Fi, according to tests. I feel like it may actually be a combination of Ti and inaccurate testing methods. The questions that typically test for Fi seem to me that they can have the same results from applying Ti to certain situations. It seems that the tests often deal with the conclusions drawn from Fi which could be drawn from Ti as well. I feel that "strong values" can be obtained by both functions even though they aren't often used as an indicator of Ti.

Example: I made the conscious decision that there are things to b e objective about and things to be subjective about. That anything that doesn't have effects on others or doesn't have a definite answer should not be forced to match objective ideals as it is a personal and subjective issue.
 

simulatedworld

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I'm a definite INTP with high Fi, according to tests. I feel like it may actually be a combination of Ti and inaccurate testing methods. The questions that typically test for Fi seem to me that they can have the same results from applying Ti to certain situations. It seems that the tests often deal with the conclusions drawn from Fi which could be drawn from Ti as well. I feel that "strong values" can be obtained by both functions even though they aren't often used as an indicator of Ti.

Example: I made the conscious decision that there are things to b e objective about and things to be subjective about. That anything that doesn't have effects on others or doesn't have a definite answer should not be forced to match objective ideals as it is a personal and subjective issue.

Good analysis. It's Ti and Fe. The "function tests" are so inaccurate they're bordering on totally worthless.
 

sofmarhof

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I've been throwing around these two descriptions in a couple of threads, since this is coming up a lot.

I do like how little trends emerge here, it's fun.

At first I thought I had a "high Fi" as well, but after reading up on it I'm pretty sure I was just confusing it with Fe. :)

See, I would have said that I'm (or the tests are) confusing it with Ti, not Fe (explained below).

I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system...I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.

Okay, wow, that just seems crazy to me, it makes me think of my ISTJ friend who says she was smacked as a child whenever she showed emotion. Everything after the first sentence seems to directly contradict the initial statement of "I feel that my emotions are trustworthy." Noticing an emotion, weighing it against what you think you should feel, and attempting to change your emotion? To me that says an intense fear of emotion. Did you write it with tertiary/inferior users in mind? It looks like a negative, self-injuring manifestation of Fi to me.

In the little Te-Fi/Ti-Fe war that seems to be going on here, I admit that I am strongly on the Ti-Fe side. But then I get these cognitive functions scores that say I have high Fi. If I were to describe my personal philosophy, I would say that a major part of it is that I believe you should be your own first priority and act in your own best interest, so I can see where that's coming from. But I can imagine it's common for someone who uses Ti (usually for theoretical subjects that aren't of practical importance to one's daily life), when it comes to making major like decisions, could appear to be relying on Fi.
 

sofmarhof

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I think the two functions are very similar, in the way Ti and Fi dominant people construct and use their view of the world.

The questions that typically test for Fi seem to me that they can have the same results from applying Ti to certain situations. It seems that the tests often deal with the conclusions drawn from Fi which could be drawn from Ti as well.

I pretty much agree with this, I guess. The tests are flawed but I wouldn't say it's wholly the tests' fault. Fi and Ti are likely to manifest in similar behavior. It's not that I'm trusting the tests' results so much, but when I saw it telling me I have high Fi I thought, "You know, that does appear in the way I make decisions."

I feel like we should just settle the "Ti sucks" and "Fi sucks" threads with "Ti and Fi are the same damn thing."
 

VagrantFarce

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BlueGray

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I pretty much agree with this, I guess. The tests are flawed but I wouldn't say it's wholly the tests' fault. Fi and Ti are likely to manifest in similar behavior. It's not that I'm trusting the tests' results so much, but when I saw it telling me I have high Fi I thought, "You know, that does appear in the way I make decisions."

I feel like we should just settle the "Ti sucks" and "Fi sucks" threads with "Ti and Fi are the same damn thing."

I was saying it's more of what they test. The tests are asking questions that would have similar answers for both functions. It's a result of having to use extroverted actions to measure introverted decision making.
 

VagrantFarce

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That was very interesting (like it was telling me something I didn't know that I knew?) but I'm not sure I see why you linked to it in this thread, explain please?

Edit: I mean I understand the connection but I want to be sure I understand what you mean.

Well, I think it's an accurate description of how ITPs experience their feelings. It should help you determine if you're INTP or INFP. :)
 

Space_Oddity

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From what I've observed it's definitely possible to be an INFP with strong Ti, but I have yet to meet an INTP with strong Fi - I would say that if an individual's Fi and Ti are equally strong, the Fi tends to roll over the Ti. However, I've got to know only one INTP into a great depth and she was so devoid of anything remotely resembling Fi that she was actually rather a case for a psychologist, so I don't think my sample is satisfying.

Nevertheless, the INFPs with high Ti I know:

INFP No. 1: My dad. He is a typical "absent-minded professor" and he is very intellectual, intelligent, knowledgeable and versatile and perfectly capable of Ti analysis. I think that according to Keirsey he would more likely belong to the NT temperament, but I suspect it's because he might be Enneagram 5w4. As he's clearly an intellectual I considered INTP for him for a long time, but then I undestood that he actually uses feeling for decisions and the INFP became clear. One can also feel that he's a deeply emotional person under his calm surface, and he doesn't throw his emotions aside. (This might be a stretch but I think that while deciding if one is a Fi-dom or a Ti-dom, the melancholic temperament is one of the indicators of a Fi-dom, and my dad is deeply melancholic.)

INFP No. 2: One of my closest friends. Her parents are an INTP and an INFP, which among other things probably affected her personality . Just like my dad, she's very likely a 5w4. She claims she was an INTP when she was a child and a young teenager - it was because she was bullied throughout all the elementary and middle school, and she built a wall of Ti around her, detaching herself from her emotions almost completely. However, when she came to a welcoming and nurturing environment at high school, her Fi personality (which was, I believe, her "default" personality from the start) started to get stronger again. As she is now, she is more capable of Ti analysis than most INFPs I know and she usually uses it when she's solving problems, but she always uses feeling for decisions, she's very self-analytical in a Fi way and she doesn't detach herself from her emotions at all.

INFP No. 3: Another friend of mine. At first she really reminded me of the INTP friend I mentioned at the beginning (the same "vibe" and body language, she loves Math...), but getting to know her better I found out that she's actually much more similar to my dad (they even have the exact same eyes...;)). She tested as an ISFP, which is a nonsense regarding the S part but it confirms my F suspicion. She's very emotionally developed, but as she's deeply introverted she doesn't show it to just anyone; she's also deeply melancholic to the point of being depressive. Just like in the previous case, the Ti wall might have been something she attempted to build when she was bullied as a child, but I suppose that instead of truly getting detached as the friend above she became depressive.

All of the INFPs above seem very reserved, even sort of "aloof", at least on the surface. They really aren't the type that can be confused with ENFPs ;)

VagrantFarce said:
I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system...I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.

I agree with sofmarhof that this is really not a good description of a healthy Fi. Attempting to "change their emotions" is like buying a ticket for a depression tour for a Fi-dom. (Talking from my own experience -_-;;; ) You should understand that "values" and "feelings" aren't separate entities for Fi-doms. They are actually pretty identical. The word "value" is used very often when talking about Fi, but I'd say that simply "feeling" is better - how Fi-doms feel about things constitute their values, not the other way round. Changing their feelings = changing their values. But as Fi-doms tend to be consistent in their feelings, this doesn't occur any often. Maybe I should mention that before I learnt about MBTI, I didn't really have the word "value" any high in my vocabulary - I rather thought that I always wanted to act according to my conscience. I always wanted to have clear conscience, and as conscience is a deeply feeling thing and Fi-doms are deeply feeling people, they always want to act on what their feeling/conscience tells them, at least the healthy ones.
 

Orangey

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Space Oddity, when you say these INFPs were "melancholy," what exactly do you mean? I'm interested in knowing for my own purposes, because I think I am confusing the common meaning of melancholy with the four humors, black bile melancholy personality (which do overlap at points, but also have significant differences.) I'd just like to know what you meant in the context that you used the word.
 

Mad Hatter

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What about going the reverse way and looking at the inferior functions?
An INTP has inferior Fe, an INFP inferior Te.
Just a thought.
 

Seymour

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What about going the reverse way and looking at the inferior functions?
An INTP has inferior Fe, an INFP inferior Te.
Just a thought.

I'm still struggling with this, personally. It varies according exactly which model one ascribes to. For me, I definitely seem to be INFP, but I suck at traditional Te strengths (enforcing standards, scheduling, lining up resources, measuring), and am much better at traditional Ti strengths (optimizing as you go, precision, finding the minimal change for maximal effect, etc). I admit I could be using some form of mutant Fi backed by Te, but it's a bit difficult to see for me (again, maybe a personal failing).

Depending on the model, one's inferior is either 4th or 8th most available to the conscious on a day to day basis. I certainly think identifying by the inferior shouldn't be at the top of strategies.
 

Mad Hatter

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Depending on the model, one's inferior is either 4th or 8th most available to the conscious on a day to day basis. I certainly think identifying by the inferior shouldn't be at the top of strategies.

I think I'm better at using Te than Fe (which is really alien to me).
I just thought that if everything else is uncertain, it might provide a little more clarity.
 
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