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  1. #11
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I think the two functions are very similar, in the way Ti and Fi dominant people construct and use their view of the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    The questions that typically test for Fi seem to me that they can have the same results from applying Ti to certain situations. It seems that the tests often deal with the conclusions drawn from Fi which could be drawn from Ti as well.
    I pretty much agree with this, I guess. The tests are flawed but I wouldn't say it's wholly the tests' fault. Fi and Ti are likely to manifest in similar behavior. It's not that I'm trusting the tests' results so much, but when I saw it telling me I have high Fi I thought, "You know, that does appear in the way I make decisions."

    I feel like we should just settle the "Ti sucks" and "Fi sucks" threads with "Ti and Fi are the same damn thing."

  2. #12
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    You should give this a read: Why Can't You Share Your Feelings?

    Here's the usual experience for ITPs:

    Friend/spouse/parent: (Say, while having difficulty making a decision at the pet store.) Would you share your true feelings with me?

    ITP: Well, OK. I hate puppies with sad eyes. Their cuteness makes me want to vomit.

    Friend/spouse/parent: How dare you say such a thing!
    By the way, this is still the best site ever ever ever.
    Hello

  3. #13
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    I pretty much agree with this, I guess. The tests are flawed but I wouldn't say it's wholly the tests' fault. Fi and Ti are likely to manifest in similar behavior. It's not that I'm trusting the tests' results so much, but when I saw it telling me I have high Fi I thought, "You know, that does appear in the way I make decisions."

    I feel like we should just settle the "Ti sucks" and "Fi sucks" threads with "Ti and Fi are the same damn thing."
    I was saying it's more of what they test. The tests are asking questions that would have similar answers for both functions. It's a result of having to use extroverted actions to measure introverted decision making.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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  4. #14
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    You should give this a read: Why Can't You Share Your Feelings?
    That was very interesting (like it was telling me something I didn't know that I knew?) but I'm not sure I see why you linked to it in this thread, explain please?

    Edit: I mean I understand the connection but I want to be sure I understand what you mean.

  5. #15
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    That was very interesting (like it was telling me something I didn't know that I knew?) but I'm not sure I see why you linked to it in this thread, explain please?

    Edit: I mean I understand the connection but I want to be sure I understand what you mean.
    Well, I think it's an accurate description of how ITPs experience their feelings. It should help you determine if you're INTP or INFP.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    From what I've observed it's definitely possible to be an INFP with strong Ti, but I have yet to meet an INTP with strong Fi - I would say that if an individual's Fi and Ti are equally strong, the Fi tends to roll over the Ti. However, I've got to know only one INTP into a great depth and she was so devoid of anything remotely resembling Fi that she was actually rather a case for a psychologist, so I don't think my sample is satisfying.

    Nevertheless, the INFPs with high Ti I know:

    INFP No. 1: My dad. He is a typical "absent-minded professor" and he is very intellectual, intelligent, knowledgeable and versatile and perfectly capable of Ti analysis. I think that according to Keirsey he would more likely belong to the NT temperament, but I suspect it's because he might be Enneagram 5w4. As he's clearly an intellectual I considered INTP for him for a long time, but then I undestood that he actually uses feeling for decisions and the INFP became clear. One can also feel that he's a deeply emotional person under his calm surface, and he doesn't throw his emotions aside. (This might be a stretch but I think that while deciding if one is a Fi-dom or a Ti-dom, the melancholic temperament is one of the indicators of a Fi-dom, and my dad is deeply melancholic.)

    INFP No. 2: One of my closest friends. Her parents are an INTP and an INFP, which among other things probably affected her personality . Just like my dad, she's very likely a 5w4. She claims she was an INTP when she was a child and a young teenager - it was because she was bullied throughout all the elementary and middle school, and she built a wall of Ti around her, detaching herself from her emotions almost completely. However, when she came to a welcoming and nurturing environment at high school, her Fi personality (which was, I believe, her "default" personality from the start) started to get stronger again. As she is now, she is more capable of Ti analysis than most INFPs I know and she usually uses it when she's solving problems, but she always uses feeling for decisions, she's very self-analytical in a Fi way and she doesn't detach herself from her emotions at all.

    INFP No. 3: Another friend of mine. At first she really reminded me of the INTP friend I mentioned at the beginning (the same "vibe" and body language, she loves Math...), but getting to know her better I found out that she's actually much more similar to my dad (they even have the exact same eyes...). She tested as an ISFP, which is a nonsense regarding the S part but it confirms my F suspicion. She's very emotionally developed, but as she's deeply introverted she doesn't show it to just anyone; she's also deeply melancholic to the point of being depressive. Just like in the previous case, the Ti wall might have been something she attempted to build when she was bullied as a child, but I suppose that instead of truly getting detached as the friend above she became depressive.

    All of the INFPs above seem very reserved, even sort of "aloof", at least on the surface. They really aren't the type that can be confused with ENFPs

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce
    I feel that my emotions are trustworthy. I use them to fine-tune my value system...I do this by waiting until I have a feeling, then checking it against what I believe I should feel. If the two are not consistent, I re-analyze why I believe I should feel otherwise. If it does not make sense or is inconsistent with the rest of my values, particularly the foundations of the value system, I alter the value until it is properly aligned. If the reason makes sense and retains an internal consistency with the rest of the value system, I figure out why I am feeling inappropriately. When I discover the core of the error, I can work to change the spiritual flaw in order to change the emotion. I continue focusing on appropriate attitudes until the actual emotion aligns with the value system again.
    I agree with sofmarhof that this is really not a good description of a healthy Fi. Attempting to "change their emotions" is like buying a ticket for a depression tour for a Fi-dom. (Talking from my own experience -_-;;; ) You should understand that "values" and "feelings" aren't separate entities for Fi-doms. They are actually pretty identical. The word "value" is used very often when talking about Fi, but I'd say that simply "feeling" is better - how Fi-doms feel about things constitute their values, not the other way round. Changing their feelings = changing their values. But as Fi-doms tend to be consistent in their feelings, this doesn't occur any often. Maybe I should mention that before I learnt about MBTI, I didn't really have the word "value" any high in my vocabulary - I rather thought that I always wanted to act according to my conscience. I always wanted to have clear conscience, and as conscience is a deeply feeling thing and Fi-doms are deeply feeling people, they always want to act on what their feeling/conscience tells them, at least the healthy ones.
    Her head hung down
    Gazed at earth, finally keen,
    As the rabbit at the stoat,
    Till the earth was sky,
    Sky that was green,
    And brown clouds passed
    Like chestnut leaves along the ground.

    - SUSAN ANN AND IMMORTALITY, T. E. Hulme

  7. #17
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Space Oddity, when you say these INFPs were "melancholy," what exactly do you mean? I'm interested in knowing for my own purposes, because I think I am confusing the common meaning of melancholy with the four humors, black bile melancholy personality (which do overlap at points, but also have significant differences.) I'd just like to know what you meant in the context that you used the word.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #18
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    What about going the reverse way and looking at the inferior functions?
    An INTP has inferior Fe, an INFP inferior Te.
    Just a thought.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  9. #19
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    What about going the reverse way and looking at the inferior functions?
    An INTP has inferior Fe, an INFP inferior Te.
    Just a thought.
    I'm still struggling with this, personally. It varies according exactly which model one ascribes to. For me, I definitely seem to be INFP, but I suck at traditional Te strengths (enforcing standards, scheduling, lining up resources, measuring), and am much better at traditional Ti strengths (optimizing as you go, precision, finding the minimal change for maximal effect, etc). I admit I could be using some form of mutant Fi backed by Te, but it's a bit difficult to see for me (again, maybe a personal failing).

    Depending on the model, one's inferior is either 4th or 8th most available to the conscious on a day to day basis. I certainly think identifying by the inferior shouldn't be at the top of strategies.

  10. #20
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Depending on the model, one's inferior is either 4th or 8th most available to the conscious on a day to day basis. I certainly think identifying by the inferior shouldn't be at the top of strategies.
    I think I'm better at using Te than Fe (which is really alien to me).
    I just thought that if everything else is uncertain, it might provide a little more clarity.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

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