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  1. #11
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    We need our own mythology. I suggest ghosts, zombies, space aliens, talking animals, time machines, space travel, TV evangelists, sex scandals, alternate universes, warring factions, genocide, numerology, symbolism, astrology/astonomy connecion, the illuminate, martial artist monks, various sacraments and mysteries, incense, tarot, climatic predictions, speaking in tongues a tie in to a Dan Brown novel (with a movie deal) prophet(s) and finally a martyr...as foretold Chapter 7 verse 11 in the book of Spam.

    PS. Oh yeah also a "great prostitute"...and bargain rate Wednesdays.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #12
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The biggest pitfall is to forget that it's true. If you forget it's true, you forget that the approaches each person takes to truth and feeling don't just differ, they differ in reasonable and meaningful ways.

    It is generally speaking, horseshit to observe that we all have different ideas and feelings. Undifferentiated difference, ironically, tends each person to think that if only everyone else would just do like I do, then they'd be okay. So if you forget that the Jung crap is true, you forget that genuinely and meaningfully different needs exist.

    There's your religion: accepting difference as real, respectable and valued.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  3. #13
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The biggest pitfall is to forget that it's true.
    It's unfalsifiable. But it can offer plausible results.

    It is generally speaking, horseshit to observe that we all have different ideas and feelings.
    There's your religion: accepting difference as real, respectable and valued.
    You can't accept those differences before you observe them.

    Undifferentiated difference, ironically, tends each person to think that if only everyone else would just do like I do, then they'd be okay. So if you forget that the Jung crap is true, you forget that genuinely and meaningfully different needs exist.
    What does undifferented difference mean? You can perceive people as either similar or different. But even slightly different is different.
    Whether you perceive these differences as meaningful or not does necessarily follow from the fact that you perceive them in the first place. The first means perception, the second means judgment.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  4. #14
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yakimadude View Post
    some people follow it just as strong as the bible to map lives and make decisions, is this wise? what are the possible pitfalls that people may occur up on following it?
    Well, the main problem I see is that it leads to logic like this

    - I know a person A of type WXYZ and he acts in a certain (negative) way
    - I know another person B of type WXYZ who acts in similar ways
    - Type WXYZ leads with cognitive functions CD
    - Because I know 2 ppl of type WXYZ who acts that way, then ALL the other several million people who also has function CD must also act that way

    Also, of course as mentioned above, just because one portion of MBTI is correct doesn't necessarily mean all of it is correct.

    Side note : Why is this in the Idyllic?
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  5. #15
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yakimadude View Post
    some people follow it just as strong as the bible to map lives and make decisions, is this wise? what are the possible pitfalls that people may occur up on following it?
    MBTI does not deal with "facts" therefore the biggest pitfall would be to look at "it" (forgetting for a minute, how there are different conflicting sources writing about it) and regard it as such.

    The biggest pitfall would be to not relativize its importance and not understand its power lies in the fact it's a relative system. It's meaningless if you don't take some liberties beforehand.

  6. #16
    Junior Member PureStealth's Avatar
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    Its a model, it can be used to make predictions with reasonable accuracy. Nothing more.

  7. #17
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    I don't think of it as a religion, I think of it like a litmus test to quantify and qualify personality traits.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  8. #18
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    It's unfalsifiable. But it can offer plausible results.
    So unfalsifiable but truthifiable? Odd odd odd...

    I think I know why this constant observation of unfalsifiability grates: it's rather like observing that metaphors aren't literally true. Well no, they're not, and that's nice to know.

    You can't accept those differences before you observe them.
    You can't?

    What does undifferented difference mean?
    Me + everyone else.

    vs

    Me + the other NJs + the Fs + the Ss + etc

    The second one allows two kinds of difference: "different from me" and "different from each other".

    And that presumably is what the Jungian crap substantially is, a definition of "different from each other" as different from "different from me".

    You can perceive people as either similar or different. But even slightly different is different.
    Whether you perceive these differences as meaningful or not does necessarily follow from the fact that you perceive them in the first place. The first means perception, the second means judgment.
    Well yeah. And the existence of a model like this Jungian crap informs judgment. And I'm a J so judgment is like crack, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just means I'm not laid back.


    The model may be wrong. Daily experience that appears to corroborate the model may be confirmation bias. Everything could be different.

    But modal verbs do NOT indicate the absence of judgment, just the absence of a particular kind of judgment. And so on.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #19
    Junior Member PureStealth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The model may be wrong. Daily experience that appears to corroborate the model may be confirmation bias. Everything could be different.
    And this is fine, as long as people are aware that the predictions you take from a biased model will also be biased.

    It works as long as you see the predictions that can be drawn from the Mbti model as statistically significant suggestions towards behavioral preferences rather than relying on it to tell you exactly how an individual will act.

  10. #20
    Junior Member occasionally shane's Avatar
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    for those who think each type is only capable of their positive attributes, then yes, this is nothing more than a religion.

    if you are able to see / imagine / empathize that certain individuals such as hitler, ted bundy, and the boston strangler where separate individuals with distinct (yet disagreeable) temperament types then you are on the path to enlightenment, or reality depending on your religion/beliefs/whatever.
    "this is the best of all possible worlds," the optimist said.

    "i'm afraid you're right," said the pessimist.

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