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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Yes, I think acting on it is a good solid definition. If you act differently toward the person because of said wrong(s) while telling them they've been forgiven. I'm hesitant to include trust/lack of trust in the acting different camp, because you can actively be not holding a grudge against someone, but self preservation may make you unable to trust them until they "earn" it back.
    True. Then again, some people would consider that "holding a grudge" and others would not. (I don't, really.)

    I think it would be hard to be like that. No offense.
    None taken. He's a real donut sometimes. (He's not talking to me either right now. It's a wonder he has anyone left to talk to.)

    I'm similar to that. With myself it goes: Feeling bad, finding reason it feels bad, asses who was wrong, decide if it even matters who was wrong, forgive/end. Stay reasonably happy .
    it makes more sense.
    Holding grudges locks you in the past.

    I don't even know if "forgiveness" factors in for me as a conscious thing.
    I just don't really easily lock people out.

    My ESFP kid always boggled my mind, though. I could not understand how he could get SO angry with someone, then the next minute be totally fine again.

    I guess the topic is interesting to me, coming from my religious background where we were always admonished to forgive and I watched various people struggle with what that meant for them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    True. Then again, some people would consider that "holding a grudge" and others would not. (I don't, really.)
    I don't either. All human relationships take work. Some take more work than others. I think it is perfectly reasonable to forgive someone while learning to trust them again. It is a very individual and personal situation.

    None taken. He's a real donut sometimes. (He's not talking to me either right now. It's a wonder he has anyone left to talk to.)
    I love thinking of your father as a doughnut . In all seriousness it must be hard to be like that, being angry at people more than is necessary.

    it makes more sense.
    Holding grudges locks you in the past.
    I agree completely.

    I don't even know if "forgiveness" factors in for me as a conscious thing.
    I just don't really easily lock people out.
    I don't either, I have done it, don't get me wrong. The situation however, was... in all honesty the only option I had after a while.

    My ESFP kid always boggled my mind, though. I could not understand how he could get SO angry with someone, then the next minute be totally fine again.
    That is interesting to me as well. I don't usually feel intense anger. I am usually removed from it (which, I think is a defense mechanism, in my case.) If I do happen to be angry with someone, I have to take a step back and think about it.

    I guess the topic is interesting to me, coming from my religious background where we were always admonished to forgive and I watched various people struggle with what that meant for them.
    The topic is interesting to me as well. I'm not religious and I wasn't brought up that way, but still, forgiveness is something I have thought about a lot, over the years. People are so beautiful and fascinating to me. I love trying to understand them more, in every facet.
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Holding grudges locks you in the past.
    I absolutely agree with this.

  4. #14
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    An interesting distinction here:

    Are we counting "holding a grudge" as "acting on the bad feelings" (which might be the more practical definition) or as having enduring bad feelings in the first place?

    Maybe they are two separate things. What I find interesting is that some types seem prone to actually not FEELING bad about the incident after a certain length of time while others still do.

    For example, Si people are very apt to do what is appropriate in a situation, so if they have been taught to forgive and it is part of their value set, they will do their darndest to forgive.

    But inside, from talking to my Si-oriented friends, it still eats and eats at them. They can wrestle for years over something. And in fact, I've seen it happen with IxxJ's as a group, regardless of S/N or T/F. My INTJ boss is sort of funny in that he takes stupidity or carelessness on the job as a personal affront in how he responds and can hold anger against people he sees as "enemies" to his work for years. To those who he does not view as enemies, he is considerate and gracious.
    That is an important distinction. I'm not sure where I fall. If I can't understand what happened, it is difficult for me to let go internally, but also easy to forgive on one level and rebuild the connection externally. It isn't an anger so much as fear and concern because the person who hurts me could be feeling pretty awful to hold those ideas in their mind. It is hard to let go of the past knowledge of what appeared erratic behavior to me. It's not an angry grudge, but increased caution that can limit my ability to communicate. I often wish I could fix things that are outside my control in part because I keep revisiting if there is anything I could have done to prevent it.

    I really hate conflict unless something can be learned from it. Maybe it could sometimes fall into a broad category of "grudge" when I need to retreat from people. I get overwhelmed by how complex they are in their communication needs and expectations. There is rarely a common meeting ground, and there is always a way to fall short in any communication attempt. Too direct causes failure, too indirect is flawed, focusing externally on reason as a common meeting ground only works with a few people since many don't hold that as important. Egos are complex and each individual lens distorted in its specific way. I regret so many interactions, but can't say it is resentment towards individuals, or resentment towards myself for being limited in awareness, as much as it is resentment towards the fact it is just so difficult to find the common meeting ground.

    I can see how people could make the generalization of extroverts moving on more quickly, but I'm not sure. I think whatever types of people hold in their mind a way things are "supposed to happen" and project that expectation into a context they cannot control, but hold onto the desire to control it regardless, are going to be the more disappointed, grudgeful-minded. For myself I wish too much for peaceful interaction that embraces both reason and empathy, with reason being sails to guide the direction and empathy and genuine concern being the wind that carries the ship. If that is not reality, then why hold onto it? If people are ego based and conflict centered, then that is the material one must work with. Maybe there is a reason for the way things actually are, and something I can learn and grow from, but still I have a ways to go to really think that.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  5. #15
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaveri View Post
    I hold grudges sometimes.

    I can also dislike someone so much that I never want to be their "friend" in any sense. A person that I used to date is in this category. I am friendly to him whenever I bump into him on campus, I say hello to him, but I would never be his friend again. If he happened to try and start a conversation with me, for one, I would just ask him to leave. I feel that I have forgiven him but don't want to have anything to do with him. Can anyone relate to this?
    I can relate. I've done this. I don't intend any hard feeling for anyone, but I'm done dealing with the crazytrain.

  6. #16
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiousel View Post
    thank you halla74, do you know where I can find that study? who published?
    Will seek it on my hard drive.

    I summarized it here once, I'll need a day or two to find it, but it's around...

    Again, those are generalizations based on type, and not absolutes.

    My wife is an INFJ, and although she does not have issue with forgiveness, she does "bottle up" hurt/pain/anger for prolonged periods of time, and that in itself extends periods of negative feelings towards others. Once she reaches resolution she is fine with forgiving...
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    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  7. #17
    Senior Member GirlFromMars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaveri View Post
    I hold grudges sometimes.

    I can also dislike someone so much that I never want to be their "friend" in any sense. A person that I used to date is in this category. I am friendly to him whenever I bump into him on campus, I say hello to him, but I would never be his friend again. If he happened to try and start a conversation with me, for one, I would just ask him to leave. I feel that I have forgiven him but don't want to have anything to do with him. Can anyone relate to this?
    Yep, I relate for sure. But, if it's someone that I REALLY don't like (and when I REALLY don't like someone it's because they've hurt me bad, or hurt someone I love, or done something that goes against my values in general in a big way) I might not always be so polite. I'll either walk away, and not want to be anywhere near them, or I will just totally ignore them. Orr make it well known I don't like them, by being really "off" with them. But, most of the time I'll just be civial, but know that I'd never be actual friends with them. It depends really on how bad I think they've been for me to hold that grudge. With a few people, I refuse to be in the same room as them, so I won't even say hello. That is only like 3 people that I can think of though.

    As far as which type is most likely to hold a grudge, I'm really not sure on that one.
    INFP~ 4w5 ~ sx/sp ~ IEI ~ Libra

  8. #18
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    As an INTP I find that I can have intense grudge feelings. To the point of thinking up elaborate (and often illegal) revenge fantasies. In general however I never carry them out.

    As far as length of grudge I don't hold onto intense grudges very long. In fact as far as the powerfull ones or the ones involving friends and family they are quiet short.

    There are however people that I just don't feel comfortable being around and if they do something to piss me off that is kinda of a contrivance of a reason to continue avoiding them. For those people in general I will give them a wide berth just to avoid even thinking about conflict or whether or not I will make attempts (and weighing whether those attempts will be fruitful or no) to resolve (not that many of them either but usually one or two in every croud).
    In general I prefer a policy of long term harmony and preemptively try and avoid slipping into a long term grudge space which I find is about as worthless as dwelling on regret.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    I can certainly hold grudges when I spend a lot of time alone, but when I'm back with others they can evaporate almost immediately.
    Hello

  10. #20
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    I don't hold grudges.
    Do me wrong, I'll be mad and all but then I get over it quickly.
    Its really not that big a deal to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

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