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  1. #61
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Schnitzel View Post
    For an INTP someone applying quality thought to your work is a compliment in itself. If I put effort into something I want someone to acknowledge it and might be more offended if they were to hold back their opinion. If someone's criticism provokes thought it is one of the most valuable things. Sugar coating is usually a waste. Ideas for the future can usually be easily deduced from quality criticism.
    Well, I'm not deducing any ideas based on Rhu's first post, but since several of you seem to think it was constructive, I tentatively conclude that the fault must be mine.

    I probably should have consulted Blackwater before jumping into this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Blackwater and I are friendly and reasonable people. (Which is to say, I'm friendly and he's reasonable. )
    :redface:

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Here is some actual constructive criticism for Economica: stop asking us for our opinion. If I understand correctly the site is supposed to be for people who are not familiar with MBTI. That means that the people on TypeC and INTPc are completely different from the people you are trying to attract. Any feedback we give about the site will be bad for that very reason. Your best feedback will be from people who don't know a thing about MBTI.
    The target audience is people who are just getting into MBTI and starting to google to find out which real people are which type. (See the attached screenshot from the site statistics.) We don't aim to teach MBTI (not unless Blackwater decides to write his own descriptions, anyway), but to illustrate it.

    I don't see why your feedback should be moot...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Economica, I don't really mean to be antagonistic here, but are you sure you're inTj, because you seem to be engaging in quite a bit of Fe for a rational.
    Thanks, I try.

    Yes, I'm INTJ. And I work alongside INTPs in academia. I've read their referee reports and heard their comments at seminars. Even when they're slamming someone's work, they do it constructively, concretizing possible ways of improving the paper and leaving authors to draw their own conclusions about whether to continue to work on the paper or cut their losses and move on.

    Of course, it could be that they're simply conforming to expectations of a culture not solely populated by INTPs, but my impression is that they're following the golden rule because even INTPs appreciate a constructive approach (example 1, example 2).

    Regardless, if it's feedback and constructive criticism you want...
    Yes, please!

    The site needs elaboration. Even if it is a beta, it's still not enough. People who know MBTI will disagree with many of the type assessments, people who are researching will be disappointed with lack of explanations, and passerby's who stumble on it will simply stumble away from it.
    Agreed, the site needs a lot of work. For me it's a question of where to begin, so knowing what the most people are missing the most (e.g. multiple celebrities? background for each typing? redesign? (how else should it be designed? is there any way we can improve it in html, because it'll be a while before we're able to bring someone on board with real skills?) etc.) is helpful. Thanks for your suggestions on this.

    This is also the reason why INTPc gave you a more negative response than you may have hoped for. INTPs live off of reasoning, the most so of all the rationals, and the little reasoning you offer in the form of quotes is hardly sufficient for true backing. Regardless of the medium, to ask an INTP's opinions on a matter in a way that does not meet their basic requirements will never yield a positive result.
    Point taken. Although, I don't know about never; I think mature individuals of any type are able to overcome their own gut reactions and meet other people halfway. But if there is a next time for me at INTPc, I'll definitely be trying a more, dare I say, diplomatic approach.

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  2. #62
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    The target audience is people who are just getting into MBTI and starting to google to find out which real people are which type. (See the attached screenshot from the site statistics.) We don't aim to teach MBTI (not unless Blackwater decides to write his own descriptions, anyway), but to illustrate it.

    I don't see why your feedback should be moot...?

    searchstring.jpg
    That attachment is interesting.

    My point about feedback is that often knowledgable people are at a disadvantage when it comes to relating to the average person. The knowledge prevents them from understanding the perspective of someone who is not knowledgable.

    If your target audience is people who are just getting into MBTI, then your best feedback will come from people who are just getting into MBTI. They will be able to tell you how to attract other people who are like them.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  3. #63
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    How did we get here?

    I've found myself living in a shotgun shack.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #64
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I don't see why your feedback should be moot...?
    I think the point is, "Why are you requesting feedback from a non-target audience" per se?

    Are we your demographic?

    You wouldn't screen movies with an audience that doesn't represent your viewer demographic, would you?

    Yes, I'm INTJ. And I work alongside INTPs in academia. I've read their referee reports and heard their comments at seminars. Even when they're slamming someone's work, they do it constructively, concretizing possible ways of improving the paper and leaving authors to draw their own conclusions about whether to continue to work on the paper or cut their losses and move on.
    Context, dear.

    You're comparing academia, where someone has an immense intellectual investment, to posting on an INTPc site populated by people who have no investment in your ideas or work and where most of the populace is twenty years old with other things on their minds.

    It's not even close to the same category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    How did we get here?
    I've found myself living in a shotgun shack.
    Are they loaded?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #65
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    My point about feedback is that often knowledgable people are at a disadvantage when it comes to relating to the average person. The knowledge prevents them from understanding the perspective of someone who is not knowledgable.

    If your target audience is people who are just getting into MBTI, then your best feedback will come from people who are just getting into MBTI. They will be able to tell you how to attract other people who are like them.
    You really throw me sometimes.

    This site is full of people who are just getting into MBTI. Look at the prevalence of typing arguments by crude stereotype. IMO it takes years of real life interaction with lots of different people to tune one's antennae and learn to recognize the functions in action given different upbringing, education, environments, IQ, etc. Even the minority of members who have extensive experience still have plenty of blind spots and biases and benefit from the typing input of others with experience (which is why Blackwater and I will always remain open to arguments against any given typing).

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    How did we get here?
    Uh, yeah, sorry - mods, feel free to merge some or all of this derail with my site feedback thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Context, dear.

    You're comparing academia, where someone has an immense intellectual investment, to posting on an INTPc site populated by people who have no investment in your ideas or work and where most of the populace is twenty years old with other things on their minds.

    It's not even close to the same category.
    I think some of the INTPs on INTPc have as much of an investment in MBTI as any scientist has in the work of a peer. ("Ben Stein?? Really? Please change that to someone less repulsive.") And is Rhu ~20?

    Regardless, I believe my point about INTPs actually preferring a constructive approach themselves stands?

    I'm off to the gym, BBL!

  6. #66
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Just as a note- I've never run across anyone who was really being rude to me or overly blunt to me when on INTPc, but then again, when I'm there, I'm there to play

    I just find the topics to be of less interest to me there and think that the site moves a bit slowly for my 2 second attention span
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #67
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Economica, I don't really mean to be antagonistic here, but are you sure you're inTj, because you seem to be engaging in quite a bit of Fe for a rational.
    Uh, no... the real issue is that she consistently expects Te-style feedback (i.e., her idea of constructive = implementational ideas) but asks a bunch of Ti-style people for it, and all we naturally do is a conceptual overview of the structural inconsistencies... which to us is VERY constructive, it's how we work the issues... and I guess to a more practical person it's not helpful.

    Her Te demands are inherent to her outlook and approach and drive the conflict when trying to engage Ti. I think even a lot of the assertions that seem emotional because of their seeming obstinance aren't, really; that level of bull-doggedness is pretty typical Te behavior when they're trying to work a situation and we read more emotionality into it than warranted because for us we only pursue things so aggressively when we ARE feeling emotional.

    just my two cents.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #68
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Her Te demands are inherent to her outlook and approach and drive the conflict when trying to engage Ti. I think even a lot of the assertions that seem emotional because of their seeming obstinance aren't, really; that level of bull-doggedness is pretty typical Te behavior when they're trying to work a situation and we read more emotionality into it than warranted because for us we only pursue things so aggressively when we ARE feeling emotional.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    and I guess to a more practical person it's not helpful.
    I'd still appreciate if someone would explain to me how Rhu's first post could be considered helpful by/to any kind of person.

    /gym

  9. #69
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    I think it's best to just shut up about Rhu now.
    Hello

  10. #70
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I'd still appreciate if someone would explain to me how Rhu's first post could be considered helpful by/to any kind of person.
    Sigh. If you don't see it, I have no idea how to explain it to you.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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