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  1. #11
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatoyer View Post
    (this is inspired from the current INTJ thread, "using people to reach goals")

    Do you respect them, if they are not dominant-types? What about those who do not easily go with your plans, but are not dominant themselves?
    Do you see value in being easygoing in certain circumstances?

    As an ENFP, I really have a hard time with being controlled.....or perceiving being controlled.......and I have little desire to dominate my plans over others. I view most of these things as trivial, these concrete things, unless they have a larger, more symbolic meaning (e.g. like a wedding, where there are concrete things that have a deeper meaning or fulfill a vision).

    The closest I come to controlling another is a clever, playful sort of manipulation to help someone become "better" , but even with that manipulation, I'm pretty upfront about it, "this is what I'm doing for these reasons, what do you think?" And I'll adapt to their preferences.........

    Let me ask something for clarity's sake: Do you mean that you don't like to be "handled" by others? If that's the case, then I fully agree. I hate it when I detect that I'm being herded (or the attempt is being made at least...) or cajoled into something I don't jive with.

    I'm not a dominant/dominating type, but I have been told I'm very forceful and tend to stare the bull down when it's lowering its horns at me. Good thing I have my ENFP to jerk me back over the fence when I'm being unreasonable.

    And that whole NTJ "I'm going to take over the world" thing is par for the course. Just let them say it. It makes them feel better. Whether one will actually do it is another matter. Things look pretty solid in the SP/SJ authority structure at this time. I see no NTJs rattling the windows as of yet. I point this out with regularity to both my extroverted and introverted NTJs and they admit they haven't achieved World Domination (tm) yet.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member chatoyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Let me ask something for clarity's sake: Do you mean that you don't like to be "handled" by others? If that's the case, then I fully agree. I hate it when I detect that I'm being herded (or the attempt is being made at least...) or cajoled into something I don't jive with.
    Yeah, give me some choices! Not "chatoyer, we're all going to do this, or you need to do this". I'd rather have, "we need help doing X, do you want to do that or y or z? What do you think?"

    Flex for me!

    With SJs in my life, I try to appeal to their need for convenience or practicality, I ask, "what would help you the most, if I do X or Y?, what do you need?" But I rarely get the same flexing back, I'd love that.

    NTJs I have a serious weakness for--esp the ENTJ, the confidence in action, it's a love-hate thing. I adore their creative Te in action, but don't try to control ME!

  3. #13
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatoyer View Post
    Yeah, give me some choices! Not "chatoyer, we're all going to do this, or you need to do this". I'd rather have, "we need help doing X, do you want to do that or y or z? What do you think?"

    Flex for me!

    With SJs in my life, I try to appeal to their need for convenience or practicality, I ask, "what would help you the most, if I do X or Y?, what do you need?" But I rarely get the same flexing back, I'd love that.

    NTJs I have a serious weakness for--esp the ENTJ, the confidence in action, it's a love-hate thing. I adore their creative Te in action, but don't try to control ME!

    This sounds just like my sister. She may be generally affable and compliant about things, but when it comes to crunch time, she's a very tough customer. She really loves NTJs too, and sees them as a great counterpart, but yes, the controlling thing is a bother to her. She's resistant to being TOLD what to do and resents any semblance of imposed control.
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  4. #14
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    Come on... who likes being controlled, really? Nearly no one. It's obvious that control freaks are a pain for everyone and that being a good leader is overcoming any "need" to control. It has to be a control that is wanted by people... A role that is necessary to be assumed by someone.

  5. #15
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Come on... who likes being controlled, really? Nearly no one.
    You obviously have not been introduced to the BDSM community...

    But, let's not go there, because the conversation of what is 'control' who is 'controlling' and what 'consent' means are a WHOOOOOOLE 'nother forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    It's obvious that control freaks are a pain for everyone and that being a good leader is overcoming any "need" to control. It has to be a control that is wanted by people... A role that is necessary to be assumed by someone.
    Sometimes being a visionary leader and doing the right thing means doing things that are exactly against what the majority or the elite of a society want. So I guess that's splitting hairs about the definition of 'people'.

    The best institutional defense against 'control freaks' is to have a more widely enfranchising system where you basically eliminate the need for 'professional politicians' and political machines. I think I'm repeating myself from another post, but basically since everyone is invested in and has a right to influence their community, everyone gets a seat in power. Checks and balances are still in play and everyone gets turns.

    I.E. the whole 'power to the people' thing.

    Hhahahaha...I just heard myself think. Yes, I know what I an impractical bright eyed idealist I sound like. Thank you.
    Last edited by CzeCze; 11-15-2007 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Grammar, dammit, grammar!

  6. #16
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    You obviously have not been introduced to the BDSM community...
    I was gonna say that, and mention that in some of my shady past I've...

    But, let's not go there, because the conversation of what is 'control' who is 'controlling' and what 'consent' means are a WHOOOOOOLE 'nother forum.
    Quite.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Hey, I can be a control freak too. Just a nicer one. And I'll only control the highest quality of underlings. If they don't hold up to my standards, then I will abandon them.
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    You obviously have not been introduced to the BDSM community...

    But, let's not go there, because the conversation of what is 'control' who is 'controlling' and what 'consent' means are a WHOOOOOOLE 'nother forum.
    That's not the same as being controlled by a control freak, it's sex and you choose to stop it at any moment if you don't like it.

  9. #19
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    That's not the same as being controlled by a control freak, it's sex and you choose to stop it at any moment if you don't like it.
    Hmm...if you say so...

    Some control freaks are just micromanagers because they care a lot about the final outcome. Some because they care about the process and 'doing everything exactly right'. And some because they are power-tripping assholes.

    Being a control freak is situational as well as. Generally if you are 'easy-going' you have a lot of faith that things turn out in the end and you are NOT process-focused or care too much about following every rule exactly. You also lean to egalitarianism and assume everyone will do their jobs correctly and don't like to feel you are harassing them.

    BUT -- next time I move and hire 'professional movers' I will probably ride their asses. Why? I've had too many bad experiences with half-assed, shady movers breaking things, leaving before completing the job, overcharging, etc. that I am WARY, I do NOT trust movers and I am AFRAID of a loss to me in the form of money/furniture.

    So fear basically can motivate anyone into being a 'control freak'. And if you have any important task that you REALLY need or want to go perfectly right.

    While I find is annoying and stressful to have a control freak direct their energies towards me, unless it's at work, it's very easy to check them or get out of their grips.

    When it comes to POWER TRIPPERS -- and you know what I mean, people with huge complexes that either always talk about being big and bad or otherwise obviously have a need to prove something -- I think it's absolutely sad and disgusting especially the clearer it is how they are on bottom rungs.

    Then there are people who just don't give damn about others and have no empathy for people they are pushing around -- more on the sociopathic side. With these people I usually just start acting exactly like them to them, I find it pretty efficient.

    And again, there's all sorts of lovely combinations of factors in the makings of a "control freak".

    BTW, control freaks aren't the only ones who 'boss people around'. In fact, the power dynamic of 'controlling' or 'manipulating' or 'influencing' people is a lot more fluid and multidimensional. Which is what I was pointing at with the BDSM post.

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