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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    "What ifs" can come from anyone but are often much more frequent in an N type.
    good call, noticed this as well

  2. #132
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    N/S is the easiest to spot for me if i get to watch/participate in social interaction with the person. throw a few easy pitches, then start making them work for it. if you can kind of sort of factor in their cultural experiences, you can see how far they can leap without a kind of grounding sense. it's just like this huge blanket game of auto-association hide-and-seek, scurry scurry.

  3. #133
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    A quick point: NJ and SJ types aren't truly "N" and "S" types, they're dominant thinking or feeling (yes, MBTI says ISJs are dominant Si, that was a big mistake and big mis-interpretation of Jung's writings), thus it's totally normal that sometimes their S-N preference is not easily discernible.

    Premonitions are pretty common in Si users. The environmental stimuli resonate with a past experience, bringing up a recollection of the experience as a whole, but interpreted as a omen of the future (Si - what is past is the same as what the future will bring)
    Right, that's straight on Jung's description of the type. S types have many premonitions, however from an N type perspective they tend to be rather baseless (just as much some S stuff that N types do is completely baseless from an S type perspective).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #134
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I'm a bit gutted no one elaborated on my original if antiquated method below


    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Alternatively you could submerge both types in water and see which on floats... but thats a really antiquated method of typing...

  5. #135
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Makes sense. But it would therefore mean that a person who is categorised by the functions would be categorised into a certain personality type whether or not they fit it depending on the functions order. For example. An INTP who uses TiSi would still be dubbed as an INTP regardless of whether or not the INTP uses his sensing function more then his intuitive function. The personality types just turn into a name and the profile would probably not fit.
    "INTP" only means "Ti dominant type with Ne, Si and Fe as the other functions."

    They don't always occur in that particular order; that just tends to be the most successful arrangement because it balances E/I and P/J priorities.

    An INTP using Si over Ne comes off as Ti+Si, as you said, but what's the problem with dubbing this person INTP? The N in the type comes from the fact that Ne would be a more natural and beneficial auxiliary. Ti+Si runs into problems with super introversion and no ability to extrovert--note that Ti+Si people usually end up doing much better in life once they develop Ne. Ne foils and balances Ti much better than Si does.


    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    (yes, MBTI says ISJs are dominant Si, that was a big mistake and big mis-interpretation of Jung's writings),
    So nobody is dominant in Si? How do you figure?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #136
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    So nobody is dominant in Si? How do you figure?
    Well he's mainly referencing socionics; which in that system IS_Ps lead with Si (defined differently). Which I've talked to you about.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #137
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Well he's mainly referencing socionics; which in that system IS_Ps lead with Si (defined differently). Which I've talked to you about.
    Then he's saying the same thing with a different labeling system. One system calls this type of person (Si doms) ISTJ and the other one calls it ISTp. Neither is "right" or "wrong"; it's just a question of which labels you stick where. This isn't even a question of right or wrong, just semantics.

    More socionics advocates failing to realize their system is exactly the same as every other typology system, just with the labels moved around a little. Sigh.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #138
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    So nobody is dominant in Si? How do you figure?
    ISXPs are Si dominants, they're the irrationals.

    One system calls this type of person ISTJ and the other one calls it ISTp.
    Nope, sorry this is a big mistake. A MBTI ISTJ is a Socionics ISTj, same for ISTP. That's the real crux of the problem, because you can't just neatly switch functions: the description of a MBTI ISTJ and Socionics ISTj are really similar, it's just that each one attributes the same things either to Si-Te, or Ti-Se.
    But you are right in a way, what MBTI and Socionics label as ISTj is exactly the same abstract entity; however, MBTI's way of attributing the functions creates big problems in descriptions, from my perspective, esp. because Jung clearly had ISxPs in mind when he wrote his Si description!
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #139
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Then he's saying the same thing with a different labeling system. One system calls this type of person ISTJ and the other one calls it ISTp. Neither is "right" or "wrong"; it's just a question of which labels you stick where. This isn't even a question of right or wrong, just semantics.

    More socionics advocates failing to realize their system is exactly the same as every other typology system, just with the labels moved around a little. Sigh.
    Nonono ISTP is ISTp. :P

    And I advocate both systems... that's why I'm here. I'm not like that guy Tyrant who doesn't explain anything he says about socionics and confuses/annoys people with it. I type in MBTI here, socionics in real life.

    I would really suggest you do some more research into it before criticizing... You seem to like to argue and argue even without sufficient information in these contexts. Because it's the internet. And I also know that you would be awesome with it if you researched more into it. Same with enneagram. They're all very useful.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #140
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    I'm not criticizing socionics. It's fine...it's just not really any better (or worse) than any of the other competing systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    ISXPs are Si dominants, they're the irrationals.
    Rationality = EJ/IP
    Irrationality = EP/IJ

    Same concept, different label.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Nope, sorry this is a big mistake. A MBTI ISTJ is a Socionics ISTj, same for ISTP. That's the real crux of the problem, because you can't just neatly switch functions: the description of a MBTI ISTJ and Socionics ISTj are really similar, it's just that each one attributes the same things either to Si-Te, or Ti-Se.
    But you are right in a way, what MBTI and Socionics label as ISTj is exactly the same abstract entity; however, MBTI's way of attributing the functions creates big problems in descriptions, from my perspective, esp. because Jung clearly had ISxPs in mind when he wrote his Si description!
    MBTI's descriptions are kind of silly, yeah, as is any system that tries to oversimplify two different functions into one letter.

    What part of Jung's Si descriptions do you think applies to SPs? And also, if Si is the SP function, who does Se apply to? Every Se description I've ever read fits extraordinarily well with SPs.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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