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Thread: Pretentious Fi

  1. #41
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    This is all a misunderstanding. OrangeAppled isn't like what the OP is describing, although she's an NFP. So yeah. Misunderstanding.

    And I'm sure that NFPs that really are pretentious like this won't have the guts to say what's going on...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I've seen people of many types do this, including Thinkers. That's the point - it's not a type issue. It's not an NFP-specific trait.
    Yeah, understood.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #42
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I have answered it directly in my first post, and so have many other NFPs in here. Just because you do not like the answer and it does not support the OP's speculation does not mean it is not true. It seems that unless NFPs say "yes, you are right and have us figured out completely", then you will not be happy with the answer.
    And I appreciate your insight. A few INFPs' opinions on Fi are not going to be very convincing arguments though. I'm not implying that you are wrong about yourself. It'd be nice to hear insights, personal, anecdotal, or theoretical, that analyze my speculations about Fi. Not just Fi users' opinions about Fi. Regardless of how much I appreciate the INFP insight, it's a pretty biased sampling pool, if you ask me.

    Maybe the bottom line is that NFPs do not do this as much as you think, or even at all. Maybe you mistype people, maybe this is an individual quirk issue & not an NFP one, maybe you misunderstand what NFPs are saying, etc. Bottom line is, I am not going to admit to something I do not do, and I cannot explain behavior that I do not have, and I resent someone telling me how my mind works when it does not work that way.
    I'm not asking YOU to admit to anything. I'm not asking Fi users to admit to anything either. I'm asking for my perceptions to be critiqued.



    I can't relate to that in the slightest. I have never insisted someone feels a way they say they do not feel. That's completely foreign to me.
    Well that's good then, and thank you for your help. But you do not represent all Fi users or all theories about Fi simply because you are an INFP.

  3. #43
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You know who does this the most out of anyone I know? My ESFP sister. The INFPs and INFJs I know are not in the habit of outright "telling" people anything, because it would be like a form of imposition (and not something I would imagine they would be comfortable with...ever.) Seriously, they MAY quietly assume some things (and even then, *maybe*), but they won't go blab about it, especially to that person.

    In fact, the whole premise of this thread doesn't make too much sense. It is well known that INFPs do not like conflict in general (and sometimes to a pathological degree.) And if the INFPs think they know what the person is feeling better than they do, then they would know that simply telling the person how they really feel would lead to conflict. Why, then, would INFx people do something that could so obviously lead to conflict?
    I agree.

    When you look at the two main definitions of pretentious..

    1. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.
    2. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.

    The second definition is completely contrary to INFX nature. But INFXs could show a sense of the first definition. A quiet sense of self-importance, polite and subtle arrogance.

  4. #44
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I want ANYBODY (not just NFPs!) to critique my perception. To agree or disagree. To offer any insight they have. That's it.

    I don't feel like I've been proven "right" or "wrong" either way. I'd love to hear a convincing argument that goes against my previous notions regarding Fi, and I'd have no qualms with accepting the fact that my perceptions do not hold ground in a broader reality. It hasn't happened yet though.
    Look, you're talking about deep, deep defense mechanisms, so objective critique's going to be hard to find here. You're not in the realm of the positive right now - you're in the realm of the normative. Ti thinks in terms of "correct" and "incorrect". Fi thinks in terms of "good" and "bad".

    And the answer you're looking for? It's less Fi than it is Pe. Extraverted perception loves to show off.

  5. #45
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    The double standard is an illusion that you've created in your own head. Quit. I even repped you and said that your Fi seems nice after your first response. What happened?
    My Fi is rather typical, IMO. That's what is wrong. I am not the atypical INFP. What you describe in the OP sounds atypical. I don't think it is type-related behavior.

    I have created no illusion in my head - you just refuse to acknowledge the double standard.


    I'm not bitching about NFPs. I put my perception on the table to be critiqued. When did I bitch about NFPs?
    I don't need to point it out. It's all throughout the thread. The very topic itself....

    I like how here you assume NFPs are emotionally invested in everything they debate also...It's hard for me to take you seriously when you keep doing what you accuse others of doing.

    Look at the bolded statements above. That's the kind of shit I'm talking about.
    You don't like it when people point out that you're being hypocritical? Yeah, most people don't like that.

    I want ANYBODY (not just NFPs!) to critique my perception. To agree or disagree. To offer any insight they have. That's it.

    I don't feel like I've been proven "right" or "wrong" either way. I'd love to hear a convincing argument that goes against my previous notions regarding Fi, and I'd have no qualms with accepting the fact that my perceptions do not hold ground in a broader reality. It hasn't happened yet though.

    This is absolutely ridiculous. I am asking for people to pick apart my perceptions, and part of the reason for me doing this is to help me decide whether my opinion is justified or not. I'm open to being "convinced otherwise."
    It's been done. Like I said, you just won't accept the points made. I haven't seen you address the actual points made against the OP unless they seem to support your position.

    Anyways....I'm done with this argument. It never ends....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #46
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    It's been done. Like I said, you just won't accept the points made. I haven't seen you address the actual points made against the OP unless they seem to support your position.
    You're right. I've been too busy personally bashing you. Let me get to those other posts in a bit.

    Anyways....I'm done with this argument. It never ends....
    Thank God for that.

  7. #47
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Tesla, dearest, as already been noted this thread was virtually fated to fail from start.

    As a battle-scarred defender of Fe I'm all too familiar with the route topics such as these take. I'm not going to damn Fi one way or another, because I've seen the same accusations hurled at Fe. I'm trying to think of how you could have phrased your OP to not raise hackles but...

    I'm sure you realize the hierarchy of functions here on the forum. Perhaps if you had started this topic about Si the thread wouldn't have gotten so contentious so quickly. What I'm saying is you're stepping on hallowed cognitive function ground. You really can't expect to have any measured and critical discussion about the negatives--be they real or imagined--about any functions that are more highly favored here. Do you think that if a non-Ne-dom started a the same topic about Ne by swapping Ne for Fi there'd be a similar reaction? I do.

    Also I notice that most people will quickly say "I don't do that!" and then other will say "I don't think you[person who uses said function] are like that!" There's no way to know for sure if someone does or doesn't have the traits and behaviors described in any OP started like this one. They may or may not...you're at the mercy of self-report and a person's ability to objectively look at themselves which at best ALL humans are running at 50%. We also have the sapience of sitting at a computer screen and typing out responses that may not naturally occur in the heat of the moment, distancing from our memory banks those times we did react in a certain way and how often those reactions or tendencies occur.

    I do think the OP could've been worded a bit more neutrally though. Sorry chica!
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #48
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    I think the other thing to consider is that communication requires cooperation on both sides. If you are being continually misinterpreted by a given type, you might want to consider how you are saying what you are saying.

    I think some thinkers tend to assume that everything they say is emotionally neutral unless explicitly otherwise. What they don't realize is that every word choice, mannerism and facial expression carries some emotional overtones. If you ignore that, you are going to communicating some random content (or some real content you aren't aware you are communicating). We INFPs have a similar blind spot in thinking we can opt out of social rituals and obligations without communicating anything.

    It sounds like the OP is assuming the problem is mostly on the listener's side. I don't think it's always that simple.

    I also find that during NT-style debates, people are sometimes more emotionally invested than they'd like to admit. They may not be taking the topic of the debate personally, but there is a sporting aggression and one-up-manship that goes on. Sometimes the aggressive and angry tone does represent real emotion... it's just more about winning and being proven right/smarter rather than the topic at hand. That doesn't mean it's not real emotion and that it's not being communicated.

    So it's possible (I don't know, since I wasn't there) that the INFPs in question are correctly picking up anger and aggression, it's just not personal in the same way it would be coming from an INFP.

    I even find the original OP to be somewhat aggressive and confrontational in the NT "stir-the-pot and see what happens" kind of way. Seems kind of ironic that tesla was using that style (or so it appeared to me) when asking INFPs about it.

  9. #49
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I think the other thing to consider is that communication requires cooperation on both sides. If you are being continually misinterpreted by a given type, you might want to consider how you are saying what you are saying...
    I'd advise the same when we have so many members complaining of how misunderstood they feel and the major communication fails that happens with the sensors in their life.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #50
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Look--its all very simple.

    NFPs ARE naturally gifted at empathizing and understanding where people are coming from.

    Sometimes NFPs are wrong, but that does not negate the fact that they are generally gifted in this area.

    Sometimes the ENFP's relatively underdeveloped introverted judgement skews their more trustworthy extraverted perceptions, and sometimes the INFP makes introverted judgements without sufficient development of extraverted perception.

    NFPs are understanding and empathetic when you are in your darkest moments, or when no one else seems to understand.

    If you want concrete examples, just open your eyes.

    The NFPs in your life demonstrate this gift all the time.

    Hell, you may even want to express your gratitude to them, as it generally fuels their desire to empathize and understand you all the more.
    __________________


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