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Thread: Pretentious Fi

  1. #21
    Senior Member Nescio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post

    now why did you have to go and beat me to it?

  2. #22
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    It's the double standard that pisses us off. We're supposed to accept their provoking, their probing, their analyzing of us (as if they know us better than ourselves), but we get written off as pretentious know-it-alls when we do the same because then we are supposedly making assumptions about people's emotions.
    Yep. What is is Ti to do?:steam: It goes back to the 'inherent fact' that feeler=whiny little girl and thinker=big strong man. Very stereotypical.
    I'll tell you what Fi is good for: Making judgments about aesthetics, and understanding the plot of Deadwood.

  3. #23
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    I think Ti and Fi can go deeper in understanding. From my experience it seems like Fe and Te are more hard pressed in what they believe and act before getting a more in depth explanation.

    My wife will jump on my words and be insistant on how I feel which is Fe and she misses my tone and context. An ISTJ I met had his mind made up about a reason I did something and then tried to steer a conversation to dig, but he dug in the areas that I wasnt good at and took that as me lying. The ENFP on the other hand dug in deeper and tried different routes to get to the truth, but her tertiary Te to me still felt like she was doubtful.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #24
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    I can't think of times when I, personally, have insisted that some was feeling a certain way. I've certainly asked if someone was feeling a particular way, but if they say otherwise I take them at face value. I'm happy to answer them if they ask why it was I thought they were angry/happy/sad/whatever. Intuition only works on available input and it's definitely fallible.

    Occasionally I have friends circle back around and say, "I WAS upset, but I didn't realize it at the time" or "I was feeling down, but I didn't feel like talking about it." I'm fine with that, too. We all process our emotions in different ways. One of my best friends (INFJ) often doesn't know his emotional state in realtime (although he's very aware of the group dynamic). My ESTJ dad isn't very emotionally aware in the moment, either, but he does work through things eventually. As an INFP I find unawareness of one's own emotional state foreign, but I understand that the way I view the world is not typical.

    You might want to ask your friend what behaviors or cues are leading your friend to believe you are feeling a certain way. It might be a simple matter of mis-interpretation. For example, it's easy for NFs to interpret NT argumentativeness (okay, "conversational/debate style") as aggression or anger. Partially that's because some NFs might have to be very angry or upset to argue so vehemently and discount another's viewpoint so directly.

    Just a thought.

  5. #25
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I'll tell you what Fi is good for: Making judgements about aesthetics, and understanding the plot of Deadwood.
    Thanks. I will remember to keep my Fi in its place

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    For example, it's easy for NFs to interpret NT argumentativeness (okay, "conversational/debate style") as aggression or anger. Partially that's because some NFs might have to be very angry or upset to argue so vehemently and discount another's viewpoint so directly.
    This is a good point. I discussed this in some long drawn out thread with simulatedworld some time ago. NTs in particular fail to realize how certain behavior is culturally seen. Tone of voice, facial expression, word choices, and body language can lead people to think you are feeling a certain way, even if you are not. I understand this, because as an INFP, I get misunderstood a lot (quiet = aloof and sullen to people). At a certain point though, you can't blame other people for misunderstanding you - you have to learn to communicate better and be aware of how you come across.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #26
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Thanks. I will remember to keep my Fi in its place



    This is a good point. I discussed this in some long drawn out thread with simulatedworld some time ago. NTs in particular fail to realize how certain behavior is culturally seen. Tone of voice, facial expression, word choices, and body language can lead people to think you are feeling a certain way, even if you are not. I understand this, because as an INFP, I get misunderstood a lot (quiet = aloof and sullen to people). At a certain point though, you can't blame other people for misunderstanding you - you have to learn to communicate better and be aware of how you come across.
    Thanks! You said what I would have said if I weren't so dim...
    So the bottom line is: empathy? I think so.

  7. #27
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't see how this is an NFP trait, and I explained that what you assume is not the case, or at least with myself and many other NFPs. I think YOU are the one trying to tell us what we feel and how we think now.
    Lol this is what I am kind of referring to with Fi When did I try to tell you how you feel? I think my OP and my responses are trying to give the most open-minded undertone possible. I phrase everything in terms of a speculation rather than a claim.

    I'm not telling you how you feel. I'm speculating. Please don't start with the Fi victimization this early on in the thread.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Lol this is what I am kind of referring to with Fi When did I try to tell you how you feel? I think my OP and my responses are trying to give the most open-minded undertone possible. I phrase everything in terms of a speculation rather than a claim.

    I'm not telling you how you feel. I'm speculating. Please don't start with the Fi victimization this early on in the thread.
    your hole undertone is an accusation ended with a ? which says, prove me wrong, which means defend yourself. You arent telling them how they feel, but how they are and saying prove me wrong.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #29
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    It's the double standard that pisses us off. We're supposed to accept their provoking, their probing, their analyzing of us (as if they know us better than ourselves), but we get written off as pretentious know-it-alls when we do the same because then we are supposedly making assumptions about people's emotions.
    Did I not already say that Ti does the same thing as Fi just in a different way? Did I not already claim that perhaps both Ti and Fi need to Ni to take a step back and unbiasedly analyze their own preferences? Quit bitching about a double standard just to hear yourself complain, and stick to the topic at hand. This thread is not supposed to be a competition between Ti and Fi, and it's hard for me to take you seriously when you get so emotionally invested in the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Yep. What is is Ti to do?:steam: It goes back to the 'inherent fact' that feeler=whiny little girl and thinker=big strong man. Very stereotypical.
    Ti doesn't do this at all. At least not my Ti but maybe that's because it's auxiliary in me. And how can you implicitly complain about stereotypes when you just made a completely unjustified and oversimplified one yourself?

  10. #30
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    your hole undertone is an accusation ended with a ? which says, prove me wrong, which means defend yourself. You arent telling them how they feel, but how they are and saying prove me wrong.
    I'm not telling them how they are. I'm telling them how I perceive them, and I am asking anyone (not just Fi users) to analyze my perceptions.

    I don't think I made any personal attacks on any invidual Fi users or any cruel generalizations about Fi itself. I don't see why anybody should be taking anything personally at this point. I'm fine with people arguing with my claims and defending Fi for its good qualities, but it'd be nice if the defense didn't come purely in the form of an attack on Ti and/or unjustified interpretations of the claims I'm making.

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