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Thread: Pretentious Fi

  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    To drag another function into this, I think there's a lot of similarities to Fi and Se on this. I've been talking to some STPs as well, and it occurs to me taht the way they feel about physical thrills, I feel about emotional thrills. They love going 200 miles an hour if they can, or do circus stunts with an F-16 if they ever got the chance. Me personally, I'll be damned if I ever even attempt that. No thanks! For me however, it's a challenge to weather through an emotional tornado, as you called it, and my goal is to stand in its eye and behold it all. My guess is that Se users feel the same way: know the danger, want to observe it in awe and still be able to channel it and be in the moment. It's freeing.

    As for your question about wisdom. I find that the deeper I go, the more refined and detailed the wisdom I take away from it becomes. So yeah..to me it is worth it
    Since you drug us into it. Its freeing to be able to be in control of the uncontrollable in regards to physical. I dont feed off the adrenaline, thats when I pushed to far to fast and lost that control. I keep it right under adrenaline and I become better and better and push the bar beyond what most would call stupid. I know when to pull back and when to push physically. In the physical realm you just have to let go and let me take over. I will make it worth it.

    This weekend I had a blast slipping and sliding on the ice. My INFP aunt thought I was completely out of control on the ice, but the second I was done I simply stood up and tried something else. When you see someone on ice with arms flayling in the air, feet going 90MPH, then just stop and stand like he was somehow in control the entire time you just found an ISTP.

    I lack the fear in the same way an INFP lacks the fear from Fi. I use it when I take my sons hand on the ice and make sure he doesnt fall. I also use it to chip away a little 3 inch square in the ice and fling my son around and let him slip and slide with out fear of falling. I take this in the same direction playing with my son like a doll, flipping him over my shoulders, around my back, lifting him up in the air with one hand and dropping him to catch him. He has complete trust in me. This pretty much extends to everything in the physical world.

    I do get in trouble as others tend to follow me and get themselves hurt.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #192
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What I'm wondering Amargith, is what are the advantages you see in being in the middle of the tornado. I guess I'm struggling with understanding what Fi people who are not as prevention oriented get out of the experience of going through everything themselves in larger than life intensity when it is not needful. I can see not avoiding something that must be faced, but I don't see facing something negative that doesn't have to be. Most Fi people I see feel strongly that everyone has their own unique experience and has to find their own way. They feel that signposts along the way are not useful because everyone is on quite a different road than the next person. I don't know if I'm misinterpreting it, or if that makes any sense.

    Aphrodite - I think probably Fe is higher on my list for a couple of reasons. One is growing up with someone as a major influence, who has a very strong sense of Fe. Another is both church environment and extended family environment that would encourage those tendancies and be seen as a positive thing to be cultivated. The third is working in a school environment where Fe is often called on to smooth things over/get people to work together and where many of the teachers are likely to be ESFJ types. For those reasons, I think I've had much more exposure to that than to Fi and therefore it has taken the forefront.

    However, I think (if I'm understanding it correctly) I do have some Fi. I certainly feel that one must be true to their own values and sense of right and wrong. I do think that you need to carve out room for yourself as an individual or else you will lose your identity in the group. I think that there is a place to decide how much the needs, demands and emotions of others can or should place in your priorities and at the very least to assess whether it is appropriate to put their wishes over your own needs.

    Regarding looking down the road, I think I only invest in specific people as far as risking myself to try to help them. I would not bother getting into conflict, if I didn't feel that our relationship required and warranted it. I also tend to assess the likelihood of success and weigh whether I can effect enough change to warrant the fallout. I think this is why I am much more cautious than my mother about how openly I'd speak my mind to those close to me, and about speaking at all in a more general sense if I didn't feel I would be successful. I tend to underestimate my ability to influence, while in some cases, she would be better to wait and pick her battles instead of speaking right away, as it will be badly received (even if what she has to say is correct and needful). Where I would get more generalized in my wish to help is if I had the opportunity to communicate the message in writing or in a speaking situation where it was impersonal enough that people could reject the message if they like, but don't as upset because they don't know me. The purpose of bothering to communicate the message at all is because if it did strike a chord, I believe I could save them some needless pain and that would in turn have a ripple effect to those close to them.

  3. #193
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What I'm wondering Amargith, is what are the advantages you see in being in the middle of the tornado. I guess I'm struggling with understanding what Fi people who are not as prevention oriented get out of the experience of going through everything themselves in larger than life intensity when it is not needful. I can see not avoiding something that must be faced, but I don't see facing something negative that doesn't have to be. Most Fi people I see feel strongly that everyone has their own unique experience and has to find their own way. They feel that signposts along the way are not useful because everyone is on quite a different road than the next person. I don't know if I'm misinterpreting it, or if that makes any sense.
    The benefit is seeing the inside and knowing what it's made up of. Understanding it. Next time you come across a similar tornado, you'll know how to handle it and can take a passenger to share the experience with. Also, often you'll find a treasure inside. A pearl of wisdom. A greater understanding. On top of that, it's a thrill to stand in the eye and not get harmed while getting the rush of being there. Also realize that often, I don't have a choice, or so it feels. I'm drawn to intense emotion, so I automatically find myself in its way. Or, if it hits me unexpectedly, there's no running from it, coz I'll be running from it forever. It's like running from yourself. This could have something to do with the fact that Fe actually navigates the outside world, which allows for prevention and avoidance of these situations, whereas Fi doesn't realize it's in that storm till it's too late. It would stand to reason then that you guys get good at prevention and I would know how to ride the wave after enough experiences.
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  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Since you drug us into it. Its freeing to be able to be in control of the uncontrollable in regards to physical. I dont feed off the adrenaline, thats when I pushed to far to fast and lost that control. I keep it right under adrenaline and I become better and better and push the bar beyond what most would call stupid. I know when to pull back and when to push physically. In the physical realm you just have to let go and let me take over. I will make it worth it.

    This weekend I had a blast slipping and sliding on the ice. My INFP aunt thought I was completely out of control on the ice, but the second I was done I simply stood up and tried something else. When you see someone on ice with arms flayling in the air, feet going 90MPH, then just stop and stand like he was somehow in control the entire time you just found an ISTP.

    I lack the fear in the same way an INFP lacks the fear from Fi. I use it when I take my sons hand on the ice and make sure he doesnt fall. I also use it to chip away a little 3 inch square in the ice and fling my son around and let him slip and slide with out fear of falling. I take this in the same direction playing with my son like a doll, flipping him over my shoulders, around my back, lifting him up in the air with one hand and dropping him to catch him. He has complete trust in me. This pretty much extends to everything in the physical world.

    I do get in trouble as others tend to follow me and get themselves hurt.
    I think that STP brinksmanship and pushing everything to the limit is a way of exploring the limits of their Ti. How quickly can in-the-moment adjustments and optimizations be made? How fast can one react to subtle changes of input from Se and make the precise response needed? Is there a limit to honing and expressing those skill?

    I suspect that some younger xSTPs find their limits the hard way.

    I also suspect the same is true for some NFPs, too. However, instead of physical brinksmanship, we court emotional engulfment, instead. How deeply can one feel? What is the precise quality of this or that emotion? Are their limits to how far one can go into experiencing it and still remain in control? How deeply can one go into melancholy, and still transform it into a lonely kind of joy?

    I think (at least some) NFPs don't tend to go after the same intensity as we get older. We've found some of our emotional limits and know some aspects of our emotions pretty well. This generally seems to be true of the NFPs I know who are over 35.

    It may also be a result of Fi not necessarily being our growing edge at this point in life; one tends to develop one's less favored functions a bit as one gets older. Or maybe it's just the energy required for that kind of plumbing of the emotional depths is being spent elsewhere.

    Anyway, not sure of any of this, but did like the parallel introduced between Ti and Fi earlier in the thread.

  5. #195
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Thanks Amargith, that makes more sense than it did.

  6. #196
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    It seems to me that what Fe users are looking for is an admission or understanding of some sorts of how damaging the effects of Fi can be upon others, when it seems like Fi users simply don't care what those effects are.

  7. #197
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    When we're still learning how to handle Fi, we can hurt others. But that's true for *every* other function out there. Immature Se can encourage people to do stupid things that can get them physically hurt. Immature Fe can damage someone's spirit by guilttripping and manipulating them all over the place just because they are different and you disagree with that. Immature Te will trample everyone in their way. Immature Ti will call everyone else a moron and damage their self-confidence if possible. And immature Si can resist change to the detriment of everyone around when that change is the only thing that can help out. Immature Ne will always be trying out new ideas instead of relying on what we've learned, just to see what it will give, without really going about it responsibly and immature Ni will be pedantic to others and believe it's own delusions.

    On the other hand, we have to be aware that everyone is learning. And it's not easy. And nobody is perfect. It's something that requires time and practice to get right, regardless of what function we're talking about. So some leniency towards one another is definitely warranted, especially when you keep in mind you'd be a hypocrite to expect from others what you yourself don't live up to or did not always live up to. Cut people some slack. In the end, the only person you can be holding up to your own standards is yourself, adn the only person you need to take care of is yourself. Don't blame others for their flaws when your own flaw is that you cannot work around that without it harming you in some way. At the same time, strive to not affect others in an immature way at all times and encourage others to do the same.
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  8. #198
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It seems to me that what Fe users are looking for is an admission or understanding of some sorts of how damaging the effects of Fi can be upon others, when it seems like Fi users simply don't care what those effects are.
    Call out some specific examples. I dont think we perceive the damage you cite. Fi is pain averse-if we were aware we were damaging the other, we would care as it would make us feel bad. Not the annoying stuff-I know we are fucking hell annoying at times. But can you cite how this ends up damaging others?

    I once told proteo this-For me-Fi takes a massive amount of energy to use. Thus I think subconsciously my brain reserves it for things which will generate a very strong ROI. Baking cookies for the lady at church-nope. Saving fifteen folks jobs-yes.

    Does Fi damage via neglect or damage via intrusion?

  9. #199
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    I too would enjoy some examples.

    Personally I don't see how anyone can pinpoint which function is responsible for any particular behaviour in isolation.

    And the idea of doing so is patently ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It seems to me that what Fe users are looking for is an admission or understanding of some sorts of how damaging the effects of Fi can be upon others, when it seems like Fi users simply don't care what those effects are.
    Fi users don't care? If Fi has a value that the feelings of others matter, than of course one would care about said effects.

  10. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It seems to me that what Fe users are looking for is an admission or understanding of some sorts of how damaging the effects of Fi can be upon others, when it seems like Fi users simply don't care what those effects are.
    I know! I knew an ENTP once who made me feel bad. I want an official apology for all ENTP functions.
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