User Tag List

First 5131415161725 Last

Results 141 to 150 of 492

Thread: Pretentious Fi

  1. #141
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    "Claiming" and "demanding" isn't introverted feeling behavior either.
    Introverted feeling can cause people who have strong introverted feeling to claim that they are skilled in analyzing emotions and being "in tune" with others' emotions to the point that they are a bit arrogant about it. Sure, Fi people can be good at emotional analyses and understanding others' emotions, but this does not happen all of the time. Fi people know that they have this skill, so like anyone else who is aware of their skills, they may come across as arrogant with it. I have seen people claim that they are so good at understanding emotions that they can understand others' emotions better than the actual person feeling them.

    You can be an introvert and still be arrogant. Having a dominant introverted function does not necessarily result in being timid and reserved. Having a dominant introverted judging function simply causes people to have a natural tendency to analyze and manifest their own internal preferences through their actions and behaviors. Strong introverted judgment causes one to analyze internally based on an internally categorized system, whether it's Ti or Fi. You are playing a game of semantics when you say that introverted functions will cause people to not "make claims" or be "demanding." People can be very strong in expressing their opinions even if their natural cognitive tendency is based upon an introverted function.

    Also, Fi can be strong in those who use it as an auxiliary as well (ExFPs), and these guys are EXTROVERTS and according to your argument, this could result in being "demanding" and "making claims" (though I'm still going to disagree with your theory that "introverts" don't make claims or demands).

    Vanity or self-absorption would have worked better for Fi. Pretentiousness is more of an extroverted activity.
    Pretentiousness is only more of an "extroverted" activity when that word is used to mean ostentatious. I already clarified my connotation though.

  2. #142
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    How would you like it if someone denied that Ti-users are any good at making logical sense of something? That they seem to think they know everything but really are incompetent at the one thing that drives them?
    I would argue that Ti users are not necessarily unskilled in making logical claims; they simply do not always know when their logical claims can be applied to reality. I have seen a lot of strong Ti users overanalyze a situation to the point that their analysis becomes based off of semantics and trivial qualities of the system, and when that occurs, it's just not applicable anymore.


    I'm guessing you'd probably laugh and shrug, without even contemplating their claim, figuring that they clearly don't comprehend in the slightest way what Ti does and how it works and that therefore their perceptions are to be ignored.
    Wrong.

    Fi's reaction is quite similar, with the distinction that most of us do wanna be understood...desperately, as it creates harmony and minimizes miscommunication. Therefore it is hurtful to see someone presume, based on incomplete observations, that I as a person must be pretentious, coz you cannot see the merit or value in what I do.
    I'm sorry that it hurt you so much to hear my opinions. I was never trying to be overly presumptious. I really thought I made it clear that I was open to other opinions because my observations may be rather limited. I really don't prefer to get into that again though.


    Do we get it wrong? Hell yes. Do Ti-users never fuck up a theory? Hell no. Why is it then, that you're not using that word and its definition on Ti-users?
    Because I wanted to talk about Fi in this thread, not Ti. I am ready and willing to admit that Ti, like ANY of the other functions, has its shortcomings and limitations and can be very obnoxious when used unhealthily.

    It's a skill, just like your Ti is. We make mistakes. Everybody does. There's nothing mystical or incomprehensible about Fi. It's just not something you find useful as a tool or know how to wield.
    Actually that's not true. I even stated in the OP that I see the value in Fi when it's used realistically.

    I don't pretend to know how to wield Ti or to find it even makes sense to me. But you don't see me wondering if Ti is useful at all and accurate in any way.
    If you did question Ti, I wouldn't be offended by your questioning. There is nothing wrong with questioning something. It helps us see things from new perspectives and reanalyze our beliefs/values. I don't see why we should be adverse to this. Go ahead and pick apart Ti if you want (but please make another thread for it, as this thread was made to talk about Fi). I really would not be offended in the slightest.

  3. #143
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Havnt read any other claims, but lets take this from an ISTP cause and effect standpoint.

    1. You didnt mean for it to come across this way
    2. INFP took it as personal

    You see the disconnect. So do you change how you come across, apologize because you didnt mean to, argue, or try and fix it next time(which can still have an apology). This is concrete and what is real. Instead you responded by attacking them for an Fi response that was driven by what you said and used it to attack them.
    You're right, I never issued a formal apology. Look at my posts on pages 9 through 12 though. I acknowledged that I appreciate the NFP perspective, and I even said sorry about the lack of clarity and neutral words in the OP. I also made several posts clarifying what I wanted out of this thread; I stated that I was not trying to bash Fi or make presumptuous claims about it and that I was actually looking for a critique of my perceptions (I stated this several times throughout the whole thread).

    I got upset with one NFP for her reaction to the thread early on. I really don't think I was particularly insulting to anybody else though or Fi users in general. Here's my formal apology though, since apparently it's still not clear that I'm not trying to be a complete bitch here:

    I am sorry if I offended any Fi users with what I said in the OP or anywhere else on this thread. I'm a dense idiot, and it's hard for me to tell when people will be upset by what I say. I just value discussions, and I wasn't watching out for how my discussion might lead to hard feelings. I don't think you Fi users are worthless, and I do respect your opinions. I even wish that I could understand emotions like you healthy ones can.

  4. #144
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INfp
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    5,295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Um wow, well here's what I said that you quoted me on:

    Does anybody feel like strong Fi users are really pretentious when it comes to understanding emotions? It seems like Fi people constantly think they know how other people are feeling but are wrong many times. In my experience, Fi users seem to feel the overwhelming urge to convince me that I'm feeling a certain way. It can be kind of annoying at times, but maybe it's some times helpful.

    Let's not argue semantics anyway. That's kind of pointless.
    Really, I was trying to say something that hadn't been said a million times in this thread. I believe the distinction is one worth making if you really want to analyze this subject.

  5. #145
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I think Ti and Fi can go deeper in understanding. From my experience it seems like Fe and Te are more hard pressed in what they believe and act before getting a more in depth explanation.

    My wife will jump on my words and be insistant on how I feel which is Fe and she misses my tone and context.
    I have never known any strong Fe users to claim that they are skilled in understanding people's emotions. I have met strong Fe users who claim to be good at reading people's emotions, but not necessarily at predicting them.

    It seems like Fi users values their ability to be empathetic and to take on the emotions of others. Perhaps this leads to them thinking that the emotions they are feeling at a given time are in fact the emotions of others as well, and that may not always be the case. I think that those with unhealthy Fi will be arrogant in their ability to empathize.

    It seems like Fe, on the other hand, is very concerned wtih making sure that those around them are in a contented state. They ask questions (unlike the "pretentious" Fi users that I'm referencing) to make sure that everyone is cool in a given circumstance. They don't pretend to know anything until they have outward signals to back up their claims.

    The ENFP on the other hand dug in deeper and tried different routes to get to the truth
    This is when Fi is healthy, imo. Fi users do have the ability to dig deeply into the emotional world, analyze, and understand. I'd say that unhealthy Fi users (the ones that come off as arrogant or pretentious) are so confident in their skills that they don't always dig in deep enough and thus make premature claims before understanding all of the details.

  6. #146
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,670

    Default

    Just tell me one thing Tesla

    Are you more annoyed when a FP tells you what you are feeling or when a TJ tells you what you should do ? (or that highly depend on the situation)

  7. #147
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Just tell me one thing Tesla

    Are you more annoyed when a FP tells you what you are feeling or when a TJ tells you what you should do ? (or that highly depend on the situation)
    Well, both annoy me, but I'd say the TJ telling me what to do is even more obnoxious. I value freedom of thought and freedom of action. FPs may be able to tell me how I feel, but that doesn't actualyl change how I feel. I can either correct them, and if that takes too much effort, I can just concede and humor them by saying "Fuck it. You were right all along. Look at you go." TJs won't shut up until you actually do what they want or at least give off the impression that you're going to do waht they want. I find this to be much more pervasive in my everyday actions than intellectual arrogance.

  8. #148
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,657

    Default

    Tesla, I wasn't hurt by this as I've talked to NTPs before, and I know how this goes. I guess I should've made my point differently. I'm trying to give you insight into Fi by relating it to the thing you know best, aka Ti, because they're similar in a lot of ways. I discuss Ti, not to discuss it, but to give you a way into the world of Fi, to see the parallells. I know from personal experience how hard it is to really grasp a mirror function, hence I was hoping my own method might help you a bit

    Meanwhile, I somewhat tried to outline the differences in reactions and motivations between the two. I'm sorry if I didn't do that effectively.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #149
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Well, both annoy me, but I'd say the TJ telling me what to do is even more obnoxious. I value freedom of thought and freedom of action. FPs may be able to tell me how I feel, but that doesn't actualyl change how I feel. I can either correct them, and if that takes too much effort, I can just concede and humor them by saying "Fuck it. You were right all along. Look at you go." TJs won't shut up until you actually do what they want or at least give off the impression that you're going to do waht they want. I find this to be much more pervasive in my everyday actions than intellectual arrogance.
    I had an impression that I will get exactly this as an answer so I had to check. But yes, we can we be quite annoying.

  10. #150
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I have never known any strong Fe users to claim that they are skilled in understanding people's emotions. I have met strong Fe users who claim to be good at reading people's emotions, but not necessarily at predicting them.

    It seems like Fi users values their ability to be empathetic and to take on the emotions of others. Perhaps this leads to them thinking that the emotions they are feeling at a given time are in fact the emotions of others as well, and that may not always be the case. I think that those with unhealthy Fi will be arrogant in their ability to empathize.

    It seems like Fe, on the other hand, is very concerned wtih making sure that those around them are in a contented state. They ask questions (unlike the "pretentious" Fi users that I'm referencing) to make sure that everyone is cool in a given circumstance. They don't pretend to know anything until they have outward signals to back up their claims.



    This is when Fi is healthy, imo. Fi users do have the ability to dig deeply into the emotional world, analyze, and understand. I'd say that unhealthy Fi users (the ones that come off as arrogant or pretentious) are so confident in their skills that they don't always dig in deep enough and thus make premature claims before understanding all of the details.
    But is an unhealthy Fi truly using Fi as unhealthy pushes people more into a shadow which would be more immature Te and Fe.
    Im out, its been fun

Similar Threads

  1. [Fi] NTJs: how does Fi manifest in your type?
    By Venom in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 02-07-2009, 05:08 PM
  2. [Fi] Fi building
    By BlueScreen in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-01-2009, 03:09 PM
  3. [Fi] What does "Fi" really look like?
    By INTPness in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-25-2009, 02:36 AM
  4. [Fi] Fi -- Why does it drive you nuts?
    By CzeCze in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 164
    Last Post: 11-17-2008, 08:47 AM
  5. [Fi] Fi: You only get it if you got it
    By SillySapienne in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 649
    Last Post: 11-09-2008, 11:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO