User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 29

  1. #1
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    pfni
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    571

    Question Finding Ti and Ni

    I have been looking at my actions and thought processes to identify and individuate the 8 functions, but am having trouble locating Ti and Ni. After reading lamp's 'Facets of Fi' thread, I'm wondering whether this is because what is written about them is geared toward describing them as dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior functions.

    I have some understanding of Ti, but I can't identify the circumstances under which I use it. When I have to examine the validity of an argument, I go through a long and tedious process of collecting data, recognizing patterns, recategorizing the data according to the patterns and testing for incongruencies based on what I find. I rely on Si, Te and Ne to accomplish this. I find it nearly impossible to come to a quick logical conclusion when presented with new information and can't think on the fly.

    Ni, on the other hand, is completely baffling to me. As neat as it sounds, I've never experienced that kind of near prescience in my life. Until I learned about MBTI, I didn't know such a thing legitimately existed.

    It may just be that I hardly use Ti and Ni at all, but I wanted a little input before I gave up altogether. Does anyone else with Ti/Ni as shadow functions have trouble identifying or using them? If not, how do you understand or experience them?

  2. #2
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,004

    Default

    Ni is pretty simple. It's just basically detaching from a situation mentally and seeing the different ways it could be seen. It sees different viewpoints of issues. Ni is also associated with future thinking, thinking of how something could develop or now things will be in the future.

    Introverted iNtuition (Ni)

    * Foreseeing
    * Conceptualizing
    * Understanding complex patterns
    * Synthesizing and symbolizing
    * Future

    "This is how it will be."
    "Aha, that's it!"

    When Ni is a preferred process:

    * You usually feel a certainty about what is going to happen, often without much detail and without being able to trace the actual data that would support the prediction.
    * You focus on "what will be."
    * You are energized by transformational visions of how someone can grow or of a completely original approach to get there.
    * You are drawn to make those visions manifest.
    * Frequently you experience flashes of insight that present themselves as very broad themes and complex whole patterns or systems of thought without being triggered by external events.
    * Inner images come as a knowing that taps into universal symbols and with a certainty that they are true.

    Introverted Intuiting is about Seeking Insights and Meanings

    It focuses on:

    * Identifying underlying meaning
    * Identifying the inter-relatedness of data
    * Synthesizing the information to reveal the "golden nuggets"

    Its approach is to:

    * Just state how or what action to take
    * Rely on insight to develop vision for the future
    * Envision without the need for tangible support

    Introverted Intuiting's verbal communications are delivered in absolutes with a quest for meaning, i.e.:

    * "Why?"
    * Identifying the hidden meaning
    * States what is going on behind the scenes

    Introverted Intuiting's nonverbal cues are: reflective, serious, and confident; may appear complex, disengaged; could appear hesitant to respond.

    To build rapport with introverted Intuiting, we can try:

    * Providing a theoretical framework
    * Using symbolic, conceptual language
    * Relating concrete experience to theories
    * Asking them to show you how they made their connections
    * Asking for the long-term vision
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #3
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    pfni
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Ni is pretty simple. It's just basically detaching from a situation mentally and seeing the different ways it could be seen. It sees different viewpoints of issues. Ni is also associated with future thinking, thinking of how something could develop or now things will be in the future.
    I guess it's maybe the language that's used to describe Ni. 'Envisioning', 'Inner images', 'Flashes of insight', 'Foreseeing', etc. When I realize possibilities, see different connections and rearrange them, it always has a Ne-ish feel.

  4. #4
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,557

    Default

    I think people have a hard time getting their head around Ni, because no one has really found a good way of describing it (or really expressing it) without sounding like a pretentious psychic/mystic/ninja wannabe. So you tend to dismiss them as just that. For the longest time, I regarded Ni as little more than a cheap storytelling device. I didn't think people actually experienced that crap.

    If you want a healthy dose of Ni in the movies, check out films by the Coen Brothers (especially stuff Like Barton Fink, that one has hundreds of "abstract symbols with seemingly a lot of meaning, but not really"):

    [youtube=kKm-_VyNVoM]LOOK UPON MEEEEEE[/youtube]
    Hello

  5. #5
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    I guess it's maybe the language that's used to describe Ni. 'Envisioning', 'Inner images', 'Flashes of insight', 'Foreseeing', etc. When I realize possibilities, see different connections and rearrange them, it always has a Ne-ish feel.
    Yeah people LOVE to over complicate Ni.

    If I were you, I'd honestly save what I quoted to your hard drive to refer to it. Because I had a hard time understanding Ni at first too (I used to think I was INFP, and Ni sealed the deal with ISFP).

    I forgot to say what Ni is like to me. So here goes-

    Basically the tertiary is a main response tool. You respond to situations with your tertiary. So Ni is triggered when I am subjected to something.

    I tend to see other viewpoints, tackle the issue from another perspective, etc. When it's in a debate with other people I will bring up these perspectives. Oftentimes I'll unconsciously predict how a situation will play out.

    I like it. I like the unique viewpoints. It adds to my awareness of issues and the world when it's triggered.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #6
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    pfni
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    I think people have a hard time getting their head around Ni, because no one has really found a good way of describing it (or really expressing it) without sounding like a pretentious psychic/mystic/ninja wannabe. So you tend to dismiss them as just that. For the longest time, I regarded Ni as little more than a cheap storytelling device. I didn't think people actually experienced that crap.

    If you want a healthy dose of Ni in the movies, check out films by the Coen Brothers (especially stuff Like Barton Fink, that one has hundreds of "abstract symbols with seemingly a lot of meaning, but not really"):
    Hmmm. I haven't watched many Coen Brothers movies (not much of a movie watcher in general). I think OBWAT, Fargo, TBL and Raising Arizona are the only ones I'm familiar with.

    Just because I can't grasp the mystical qualities of Ni insight doesn't invalidate them. But I really, REALLY don't understand them when they are described in such terms.

    Yeah people LOVE to over complicate Ni.

    If I were you, I'd honestly save what I quoted to your hard drive to refer to it. Because I had a hard time understanding Ni at first too (I used to think I was INFP, and Ni sealed the deal with ISFP).

    I forgot to say what Ni is like to me. So here goes-

    Basically the tertiary is a main response tool. You respond to situations with your tertiary. So Ni is triggered when I am subjected to something.

    I tend to see other viewpoints, tackle the issue from another perspective, etc. When it's in a debate with other people I will bring up these perspectives. Oftentimes I'll unconsciously predict how a situation will play out.

    I like it. I like the unique viewpoints. It adds to my awareness of issues and the world when it's triggered.
    Thank you for bringing the description of Ni down to an IxFP level a little bit. I noticed that you changed your type preference. Are you happy with it so far?

    I can try to predict how a situation will play out, but I'm not at all good at it. I've noticed I'm much better at describing the present situation than anticipating specific future outcomes. I can't remember the last time I accurately predicted anything. It's a source of consternation, actually, since any number of (negative) outcomes are possible when I can't narrow them down to a few probabilities. I can only expand the possibilities with Ne and that gets tiring fast. It's not that I can't see and compare multiple points of view, it's just that doing so doesn't help me envision a single likely future scenario.

    I guess that might be a helpful way to see Ni - to narrow down and refine instead of expand and elaborate (Ne)? Is this on the right track?

  7. #7
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    I noticed that you changed your type preference. Are you happy with it so far?
    Oh yes. It fits me quite well. I enjoy it.

    I can try to predict how a situation will play out, but I'm not at all good at it. I've noticed I'm much better at describing the present situation than anticipating specific future outcomes. I can't remember the last time I accurately predicted anything. It's a source of consternation, actually, since any number of (negative) outcomes are possible when I can't narrow them down to a few probabilities. I can only expand the possibilities with Ne and that gets tiring fast. It's not that I can't see and compare multiple points of view, it's just that doing so doesn't help me envision a single likely future scenario.

    I guess that might be a helpful way to see Ni - to narrow down and refine instead of expand and elaborate (Ne)? Is this on the right track?
    That's interesting. Ni and Ne work with opposite intentions, though they're still N functions.

    I think that due to my practicality working with my Ni, I can predict realistic outcomes very easily. I basically just use Ni to come to a possible outcome. It seems like it just hits me. Then when I think about the actual possibility of the event I predicted happening, I think about all of the things needed to get there and I verify in my mind if that's realistic. It usually is. I'm pretty bad at getting original ideas though.

    I don't do this anywhere near to the caliber that NJs do it, but I still do it a lot. It's more of a tool than a way of living life.

    And yes you're on the right track. I see it like this- Ni starts at the top and heads to the bottom, Ne starts at the bottom and heads to the top-



    It seems as though you want to know more, but I don't know what else to say. I'll be happy to answer anything you want.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #8
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    pfni
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Oh yes. It fits me quite well. I enjoy it.

    That's interesting. Ni and Ne work with opposite intentions, though they're still N functions.

    I think that due to my practicality working with my Ni, I can predict realistic outcomes very easily. I basically just use Ni to come to a possible outcome. It seems like it just hits me. Then when I think about the actual possibility of the event I predicted happening, I think about all of the things needed to get there and I verify in my mind if that's realistic. It usually is. I'm pretty bad at getting original ideas though.

    I don't do this anywhere near to the caliber that NJs do it, but I still do it a lot. It's more of a tool than a way of living life.

    And yes you're on the right track. I see it like this- Ni starts at the top and heads to the bottom, Ne starts at the bottom and heads to the top-



    It seems as though you want to know more, but I don't know what else to say. I'll be happy to answer anything you want.
    I'm glad you're enjoying being an ISFP.

    It's interesting to me that you explain Ni as a pragmatic function for daily use instead of a near gift of revelation. It's much easier for me to understand how it works when you describe it in those terms. It seems as though it would be incredibly useful if mastered. I would love to have my thoughts 'click' into place like that. On the other hand, I really treasure Ne's ability to multiply the possibilities. I'm not sure I would ever trade it for anything.

    By the way, I love the illustration you made. It's a simple and elegant way to explain both functions.

    I have a few other questions. Otherwise, this has been an incredibly clarifying exchange. Thank you for helping me out.

    1. Do you have to have consciously thought about the problem or situation to have that moment of clarity? Or can a solution find you when you aren't looking for it?
    2. Do you work on honing Ni? If so, how?
    Type: INFP Enneagram: 4
    Fi>Si>Ne>Te>Fe>Se>Ti>Ni

    cataplum!

  9. #9
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,671

    Default

    I think that Black Cat is simplifing since he is a ISFP.

    Let me try.





    Picture A is Ne. (basicly this is 3d version of what BC posted)


    Picture C is Ni when it's job is finished. But in reality this is 3 dimensional picture. For example that third dimension can be time.

    In theory you can connect all of the dots with all dots but that is impossible to create because that plan couldn't be placed into motion. (because of practicality I will skip the explanation why this is the case)


    Instead my brain gives my exactly the right "order" of how dots should be connected. But the most important things is that all connection are made in two directions.


    So the case that third dimension is time you can go up and down on this web. Up is future , down is past. I think you can imagine that there is layer upon layer od connected dots that look similar to each other and similar as a picture C. So when you create a connection between two layers you are forseing into the future or past. Also you can create an "artificial" level between levels where you can check if the connection is right / good.


    What Ni allows you to pick up aare facts/events in the past and drive it through present into the future. So what Ni is trying to do is grasping a chain reaction of which other people are not even aware of.
    When it is just a one series of events then people can grasp it but if there is 10 interconnected events that are not even geographically close or similar in nature most people will fail in grasping it. They will probably not even realize that there is a connection.
    And since people can't grasp it they treat it as magic or something like that.


    Of course this is Ni with alot of Te (just to be clear).




    Basicly this is why Ni-doms tend to look so confused most of the time.
    This is because you are not providing exact cordinated in that web with layers. By that I mean we have a huge problem placing things into the context since you are just providing facts that are not connected with anything. What means that if I give you my answer it would not hold any real value (to me of course) since it is not connected to the "web of reality" and as such it is just a "pointless" speculation.

  10. #10
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    I think people have a hard time getting their head around Ni, because no one has really found a good way of describing it (or really expressing it) without sounding like a pretentious psychic/mystic/ninja wannabe. So you tend to dismiss them as just that. For the longest time, I regarded Ni as little more than a cheap storytelling device. I didn't think people actually experienced that crap.
    That's funny; When I first learned of the functions, all of the other seven made sense, and I concluded Jung might have made Ni up, just to complete the "symmetry". In other words, all of the other functions have both introverted and extraverted variants, so something had to go into the Ni slot; so he fabricated this "seeing the future" stuff, which did not seem real (only the domain of kooks and fakes such as palm readers, shamans, etc, or, divinely inspired prophets, which is a gift, not a natural cognitive preference, and which no longer seem to exist as genuine).

    I still try to sort through what is Ne vs Ni. Sometimes the descriptions seem to overlap.
    But then again, there are really four functions, and the real difference between them is the orientation the ego uses them in.

    As an INFP, using the archetypes, the OP should look for Ni to come up when being very critical and grumpy about stuff. Like perhaps the underlying meaning of life, or various situations the direction things are heading, etc. Ti would be something that might irritate you (impersonal analysis of the theories for its own sake, and not for understanding self/helping others?) And then you use it to try to undo others' Ti conclusions, like proving them inconsistent. (We could say, Victor is last-place Ti incarnate?)
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

Similar Threads

  1. [JCF] How do you identify Ne - Si and Ni - Ti in everyday life?
    By Noa in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-28-2017, 11:02 AM
  2. [Ti] Ti and vulnerability
    By Chilichimichanga in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-11-2017, 09:27 AM
  3. [Ni] INFJ and Ni doms, how do you make decisions?
    By fidelia in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-14-2012, 02:53 AM
  4. What exactly is the difference between Ti and Ni, Si and Fi, and others?
    By Triglav in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-14-2009, 11:28 AM
  5. [MBTItm] Possible explination of INFJ's and Ni at their worst.
    By Athenian200 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-13-2008, 01:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO