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  1. #21
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I mean, the pure mystical/'revelation' piece doesn't even make sense, really, as a dominant process...that would be like the dom-Ni having his prime mode of being consisting of pure mysticism. I mean, it's not like dom-Ni users are having 'revelations' 24/7...that's silly...so what would the dom-Ni user be doing the other 95% of the time when he's not having a supposed revelation?

    I think this is good. I often view my thought process as more of a spider web - just linking stuff together, pulling from various sources with the aim being to hone in on something. I think Blackcat's illustration, although simpler, is appropriate, as is what Jane concluded about the differences between Ne/Ni...the general tendency for Ni to hone inwards -- pulling from many points with the desired goal to tie all of it together in some way or find some overall theme, vs. Ne's tendency to have a starting point and branch out from there.

    And, as Blackcat says, Ni is really more about multiple perspectives and shifting. A very fluid inner world, but again, with a desire to tie all of it together somehow. And tying it all together can take quite some time, and it isn't always an 'active' process. But once we tie it all together, we have sort of a completed product, if you will. It's why when new information comes in, it might take a while to assimilate that new information into our overall 'vision' -- because you're dealing with a spider web in your mind and you have to reallign all of the connections; break apart some links created previously, to account for the new piece.

    (I also added a few other comments on this topic here - http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post956157 - and you can review other Ni's viewpoints (some differing) as well)
    This helps make it click a little better for me. I originally went with the whole time orientation expression (Se what is, Si, what was, Ne what could be, Ni what will be), because it was the easiest way to understand the functions in relation to each other. Yet the whole "future" orientation of Ni made it hard to really grasp as a normal cognitive process and not as some mystical power. The other descriptions then focused on stuff like "connections", "knowings", etc but then Ne was often described with similar language.

    So then saying that Ne starts with a focal point and then makes multiple connections, while Ni starts with multiple points and then tries to focus them together makes more of a clearer distinction. Still trying to match this to the notion of Ni being "internally" focused rather than external. Both are looking at external objects, so I guess for Ni, it's the focal point that is internal, and thus that wherever the focal point is, is the orientation?
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  2. #22
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Great illustration from Antisocial One. That is also how I picture Ne vs Ni, though Black Cat's explanation is more closely and directly connected to the theory.

    I picture Ti looking very similar to Ni, though. Maybe because for Ti-users, that structure is the final goal, but for Ni-users it is not the final goal, it is meant to be used. None of that's directly connected with reality, but maybe we'll get there...
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What Ni allows you to pick up are facts/events in the past and drive it through present into the future. So what Ni is trying to do is grasping a chain reaction of which other people are not even aware of.
    Right on the money.
    When it is just a one series of events then people can grasp it but if there is 10 interconnected events that are not even geographically close or similar in nature most people will fail in grasping it. They will probably not even realize that there is a connection.
    And since people can't grasp it they treat it as magic or something like that.

    Of course this is Ni with alot of Te (just to be clear).
    I'm inclined to agree with you that what you are describing is Ni with Te.
    Your post hit me right between the eyes with its accuracy.

    Excellent.

  4. #24
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    I thought that Ni was supposed to offer coherence and clarity.
    Well it does. But without Te it's not structured, it's just a sense of "knowing." The stuff that Antisocial one is talking about rings somewhat true to me, except I'm not structured. I hardly follow a sequence of events. I never think about anything like that. It's like a vague sense of what's going to happen, and symbolic events confirm my suspicion.

    It's like everything that I perceive deeper than Se is clouded Fi and Ni. I go based off of vibes and feelings, that I can't put words to. But I know based on these feelings. It's very clear to me... but it's hard to put to words. :P

    I'm sorry if it's getting redundant at this point, but that sounds amazing. Whenever I'm 'hit' with a partial solution, I never know what is missing OR have the 'dots' in place. If I stumble upon a 'truth', I refine it/test it/complicate it/look for internal inconsistencies/challenge the language I use to express it until it is in tatters. Worse, in the process, Ne continues to create more possibilities. At a certain point, I have to commit to a single idea but again, thankfully, this is only necessary in my academic life. In my everyday life, Fi simply picks the best feeling 'truth' for me. :confused:
    Yeah I dislike letting Fi lead me on like that, even though I lead with it. I don't do that with a truth, I just leave it be and analyze it from other angles (Ni lol). I get more information and experience to further validate it as well (Se).

    So Se compensates in a way for Te's inability to provide structure. Is your experience of the connections themselves tangible/visual/spatial as well? I'm not a big user of Se, so I'm curious to know how it works in conjunction with an intuitive function.
    That's an interesting way to look at it! But yes I suppose that Se does provide some structure, but not really organization. Ni is best used for me when connected to reality; in fact it's most of the time connected to tangible things.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  5. #25
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Well it does. But without Te it's not structured, it's just a sense of "knowing." The stuff that Antisocial one is talking about rings somewhat true to me, except I'm not structured. I hardly follow a sequence of events. I never think about anything like that. It's like a vague sense of what's going to happen, and symbolic events confirm my suspicion.
    Like Jaguar said, Antisocial one's description is Te-based. Maybe it's more difficult for those of us with inferior Te to relate to that kind of structuring. :confused:

    Yeah I dislike letting Fi lead me on like that, even though I lead with it. I don't do that with a truth, I just leave it be and analyze it from other angles (Ni lol). I get more information and experience to further validate it as well (Se).
    It's good that you are able to work around Fi like that. I don't have that much faith in my ability to fully comprehend and analyze the issues that Fi usually resolves for me. I have to work on that, but I feel like a typological Helen Keller in some ways, having very limited innate use of my functions (except of course for Fi).

    That's an interesting way to look at it! But yes I suppose that Se does provide some structure, but not really organization. Ni is best used for me when connected to reality; in fact it's most of the time connected to tangible things.
    It really seems like ISFP (w/ Se and Ni) is a fit for you.
    Type: INFP Enneagram: 4
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  6. #26
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    I don't have that much faith in my ability to fully comprehend and analyze the issues that Fi usually resolves for me.
    Se. You can't deny reality.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  7. #27
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    But to be hoesnt I think we have a misunderstanding here.

    You are talking about I will dare to call "life philosophy" while I am talking about a line of "thought". So in each of this caregories the one looks like the other in other category.
    no... i'm talking about typology.
    strictly typology. and you're right - i am correct.

    my recommendation for all of you in this thread is to give pause and do some research, rather than to continue the back-and-forth nonsense. it becomes congested and the more we hear a non-truth, the easier it is to believe, despite its incorrectitude.

    but i really don't want to get too involved here. this is stuff i already know, and am unlikely to pass on to anyone else - most people don't like to listen.

    the facts are these: as per the relevant definitions of objective and subjective, Ni focuses its information collection - it does not spread it out. Ne, conversely, has no focus and does proceed to spread itself out.

    in my assessment, neither function's activity would yield a graphic as methodical and even as image C, but if either of the two was to do it, it would be Ne.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #28
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    but i really don't want to get too involved here. this is stuff i already know, and am unlikely to pass on to anyone else - most people don't like to listen.

    I've never seen you contribute anything worthwhile.

  9. #29
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    the facts are these: as per the relevant definitions of objective and subjective, Ni focuses its information collection - it does not spread it out. Ne, conversely, has no focus and does proceed to spread itself out.

    in my assessment, neither function's activity would yield a graphic as methodical and even as image C, but if either of the two was to do it, it would be Ne.
    you haven't pinned down a significant meaning for Ne or Ni in this thread at all.

    the whole i is focused, e is expansive makes a bit of sense. it tells a piece of the story in its own way. i too like the fundamental nature of the mbti diagrams- mostly. yet the pictorials are misleading. Ni is not using less information than Ne. Ni is supplying its perceptual experience with less information from the immediate environment and more from its own previous experience. this is also why Ne is so much more concrete, it's not referring to information abstracted so heavily from the material, it's using ideas in material and material for ideas.

    this is the state i am in trademarked, but the difference between an introverted and an extroverted function is the way that they incorporate memory. the i functions integrate more tightly into their framework, work in a way that seems more specifically focused on integration with previous models, because they test new information against much much more previous information. they do more complex synthesis with memory, and store longer-term learnings. whereas e processes are fast, efficient, and more flexible. they merge with experience and allows the situation to supply itself.

    the way these effect judging and perceisving processes differ as to where the structuring agent and the information supply get their places in the overall system.

    this accounts for the differences between predominant introverts and extroverts, js vs ps, and the differing blends of past/present/future orientations of the perception functions.

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