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  1. #71
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    As far as I can see, there's not the slightest correlation so far in the thread.

    Can an ISTJ crunch the numbers for me?

  2. #72
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Googling for possibilities takes minutes.

    Science and astrology: the proof in astrophysics

    If you want to argue his theory after reading that, go call him.
    Astronomer, astrophysicist and respected authority in the field of cosmic magnetism, Dr. Percy Seymour, argues in his most recent book, The Scientific Proof of Astrology: Tuning to the Music of the Planets, that the movement of the Sun, Moon and all the other planets interfere with the Earth's magnetic field. In doing so, the unborn offspring of expectant mothers around the world are exposed to different magnetic fields that toy with the development of their budding brains. In an earlier book, "Astrology: The Evidence of Science", Dr. Seymour put forward the theory of magneto-astrology", which supposes that human biological clocks keep time with the planets.
    Even if his theory were 100% fact, it still wouldn't be the proposed mechanism of astrology. Magnetism affecting brain development still wouldn't create a mechanistic link between other people burglarizing your house and your astral chart (something mentioned earlier in the thread).

    Again, I do not support scientism. This isn't about astrology being wrong because its not science. Its more about trying to clothe metaphysics as legitimate science. I don't support psudoscience. I think people are entitled to believe (because it perfectly logical) whatever metaphysics they want as long as they admit that its metaphysics. Otherwise they are peddling psudoscience.

  3. #73
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    INFJ... I'm not sure about enneagram... I think I'm equally 5 and 4. Gemini.

    I think the 5w4 is well suited to a Gemini. I heard somewhere there was a correlation between INTPs and Geminis....


    EDIT: I think this a load of WAFFLE

  4. #74
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Googling for possibilities takes minutes.

    Science and astrology: the proof in astrophysics

    If you want to argue his theory after reading that, go call him.
    Seth Shostak, a leading American astronomer, was also scathing, describing Seymour's theory as "nonsensical". He pointed out that even though large planets like Jupiter had magnetic and gravitational fields far greater than the Earth's, they were massively diluted by distance. "Jupiter's magnetic field is about a trillion times weaker than the Earth's," he said. "You would experience a far stronger field from your lights and washing machine."


    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Even if his theory were 100% fact, it still wouldn't be the proposed mechanism of astrology. Magnetism affecting brain development still wouldn't create a mechanistic link between other people burglarizing your house and your astral chart (something mentioned earlier in the thread).
    Thank you!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #75
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Seth Shostak, a leading American astronomer, was also scathing, describing Seymour's theory as "nonsensical".
    Do you think you posted something I haven't already read before?
    You have to be quicker on the draw than that, Sim.

  6. #76
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Under astrology, there must be some sort of causal or mechanism link to the planets and our behavior, even if they don't determine the outcomes.

    If the connection between the planets was not obtained by recognition of a mechanism or correlating results (there can only ever be one Janaury 10th 2001), where did all of this astrological knowledge come from? (im sincerely asking )

    Hi

    I think I get your distrinction.

    It's kind of like you being very strong or being very beautiful.....

    Any person can learn to be strong, they can press weights - take steriods etc... but the natrualyl born strong don't need to work at it.... Hence being said to be natrually strong is a resource you have.

    Beauty is probably better (again a non bueatiful person can have cosmetic surgery etc).... The natrual beauty has it already.

    Astrology basicaly is a snap shot of your resoruces... it doesn't cause strongess of beauty, just gives you a mechanisim for saying this child is likely to develop these resources.

    I guess when it coems to how astrology works, there may be more around the causal factors, but that is really beyond exploration and proven. I've done some pre-epoch work before now, conception charts and they have an an interesting interplay with the native.

    In a conception share the moon is where the ntal charts ascendant is, and vice versa (sorry this may get too technical).... so actually fact the moment of fertilisation is important and does relate to when the person is born.... this of course theory rather than verifable.

    As for where did it come from... eons ago....

    Wiki says 3rd millennium BC.... long while BC.... Originally it was star gazing perdominantly to predict farming outcome... the moon was largely instrumental. As civilisation took off, the astrological interpretation of other planets grew, it's been passed down generation via word of mouth.

    The first book in the UK that I'm aware of was 1346 or there about - William Lilly's Christain astrology

    Historically the celestial bodies that were used:
    Sun
    Moon
    Merucy
    Venus
    Mars
    Jupiter
    Saturn

    Were the only planets... It predicted the weather focast, good times to start wars, predicted famines etc etc.....

    Each planet has a meaning, which is then helped or hindered by how it relates.

    Mars = agression - you could have mars in a good sign to get things done (Mars used as energy), but if Saturn (inhibitor) is making a harsh aspect it it, Saturn will hinder Mars' expression... so instead of getting things done, the native will experience lots of blocks to get things done, which can be exhausting, or create agressive outcome, or a need to develop a lot of coping mechnaisims.

    Hence each planet has interpretations. It's these interpretations that make Astrology (interpretation of planetary movement), different from astrology - mapping out the movement of the stars.

    Hence it's real origin was probably global use as a weather monitor in the first place, natures natrual calender in seassonal countries, and direction setter to sailors and fishermen.

    From early civilisation, it has been incororated into what is now knonw as science, it was part of astronomy, it si part of the hypocratic oath I beleive - sits in the terratory of not conducting surgery when the atrological conditions are bad (basically the native would bleed out).... Only relatively recently did the sciences split... and to be honest with you they are largely the same...

    Take human behaviour:
    * Psycology
    * Behavioural ecconomics
    * Ecconometircs
    * Statistics
    * Operations research
    * Market Research
    * Social Research

    Are all different but they can all look at human behaviour and suggest ways to change it..... They are not in practice all that different they just add a different perspective. All of these disciplines are not perfect, humans are complex, their behaviours highly complex...

    Does this help? Ask questions as much as you like, I might run dry of answers but I'll do my best to help. I do genuinely beleive you are interested - rather than screaming unproven and not contributing much to the discussion....

  7. #77
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    As far as I can see, there's not the slightest correlation so far in the thread.

    Can an ISTJ crunch the numbers for me?
    but that is even true to MBTI and Engramme

    The issue is that these are all ways to segment people, unless they build on previous system then they will have perhaps limited alignment but not enough to be useful.

  8. #78
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    BC anothr thought

    Astrology isn't science or psyudo one... but it is an analytics discipline,

    The anlytics is abotu combining 10 variables (the planets), in 12 signs, making any number of different aspects... so you have the factual data of Saturn Saquaring Mars, but also the interpretation of how the native may use that as a resource... as said above

    Saturn suare Mars may indicate times in life where others block progress, or times when energy becomes very low, or when you loose the rag occationally because someone has held you back, or it could be physical... anemia.... all of these are possibilitites... but not all at once, a person may at one point in their life go through a few years when they are using this combination badly and they are just angry with everyone.... other times they are lively enegaged and driven to achieve.

    hopefully that will clarify science through art.... it's not made up stuff, it's inerpreting data to a set criteria and then intellegently applied

  9. #79
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    but that is even true to MBTI and Engramme

    The issue is that these are all ways to segment people, unless they build on previous system then they will have perhaps limited alignment but not enough to be useful.
    Well, MBTI and Enneagram segment people based on the main aspects of personality.

    Astrology uses celestial configurations billions of miles away to explain human affairs and personality, which is literally the hugest gap in logic ever. Right? You might as well be rolling a dice to assign personality characteristics.

  10. #80
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Well, MBTI and Enneagram segment people based on the main aspects of personality.

    Astrology uses celestial configurations billions of miles away to explain human affairs and personality, which is literally the hugest gap in logic ever. Right? You might as well be rolling a dice to assign personality characteristics.
    Actually MBTI and Enneagram segment based on peoples own understadning of themselves, not on their personalities....

    IF we were to survey them and a group of their friend we would say they ahd been segmented based on their personalitites.

    No astrology segments based on time palce and date of birth.. rather than self reporting.

    Do you know that with market/social research you can take a childs post code and identified the overall style of their life... AKA high performing to crimial beahviours..... sad really, and thats just a post code

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