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why do Es sleep? it's MBTI fail.

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
Your experience doesn't include enough data to accurately mirror reality then. Is spend time doing lots of things other than sleeping, they just happen to be doing it alone. Watching movies, analyzing situations, solving math problems, making computer programs, reading the Bible, writing poetry, painting, etc. Hell, lots of these things they may even be able to do in their beds. Just because they are alone and under the sheets does not mean they are sleeping though. (Note: I realize how dirty that last sentence sounds, but get your mind out of the gutter!)

Please, offer a good reason as to why Is might sleep more than Es. One that I won't be able to counter with all the things I've already mentioned in this thread.

Lol, calm down, wtf. You didn't provide any "data" either, just your own rationalization. I was talking about sleeping, not doing other stuff under the sheets, which of course cannot be counted as sleep-time. Again: all the introverts I know sleep (strictly sleep) more than the extroverts. Perhaps in your circle of friends and acquaintances the situation is either reversed, or there is no clear patter. I cannot know that. Since, however, what I spoke about mirrors the reality I have experienced, at the very least I can say that its negation cannot mirror reality accurately, since there is at least one occurrence against that hypthesis (namely, that there is no clear pattern of sleeping-preference between E and Is).

An example of a "good reason" would be that generally speaking introverts are defined as being less energetic than extraverts (before you question this definition, I will say that it's one of the parameters in the Big-5 definition of E-I axis).
 

teslashock

Geolectric
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
1,690
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ENTP
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7w6
Lol, calm down, wtf.
I am calm. Sorry that I gave off the impression that I was anything but calm...

You didn't provide any "data" either, just your own rationalization.

I didn't ask for data. I asked for reasons outside of your own relatively narrow persepective. Your rationale, if you will.

I was talking about sleeping, not doing other stuff under the sheets, which of course cannot be counted as sleep-time.

The sheets part was a joke, apparently wasted on you...

Again: all the introverts I know sleep (strictly sleep) more than the extroverts. Perhaps in your circle of friends and acquaitances the situation is either reversed, or there is no clear patter. I cannot know that, you cannot know what mirrors reality either.

I never said anything about the introverts that I know. I just offered some reasons as to why the interpretation from your own experience may not be mirroring reality. It would be nice if you could offer something beyond your own experience to justify why Is might sleep more than Es.
 

teslashock

Geolectric
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
1,690
MBTI Type
ENTP
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7w6
An example of a "good reason" would be that generally speaking introverts are defined as being less energetic than extraverts (before you question this definition, I will say that it's one of the parameters in the Big-5 definition of E-I axis).

Fine, Is appear less energetic than Es, but that could be due to the fact that when we see Is, it's typically in a social setting (by definition of social setting), and this is where Is feel less comfortable. Thus they kind of tuck into a shell of apparent aloofness and timidity, giving the impression of "less energetic." This does not mean that they are physically tired and desirous of sleep though.

I could make the argument that:

1) Is derive energy from being alone with themselves
2) When we sleep, we are typically alone.
3) Thus, Is enjoy sleeping less than Es.

Honestly, I still don't really think there's much correlation though.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
They won't sleep with me once they learn I wake up in the night screaming, thinking there is an E in bed with me.
 

BlueSprout

/X\(:: :: )/X\
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
571
MBTI Type
pfni
Enneagram
4
sometimes it extroverts itself. It needs contact with something so its extroversion can become satiated. Whether that thing be a hand or a woman or a goat or a microwaved watermelon with a hole carved in it.

I'm a sleep deprived 'I' with mild dyslexia. I read "microwaved goat". :yim_rolling_on_the_
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
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Messages
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Fine, Is appear less energetic than Es, but that could be due to the fact that when we see Is, it's typically in a social setting (by definition of social setting), and this is where Is feel less comfortable. Thus they kind of tuck into a shell of apparent aloofness and timidity, giving the impression of "less energetic." This does not mean that they are physically tired and desirous of sleep though.

Allright, I didn't mean to imply that there is an universal logical rule connecting introversion with sleep duration. However, to respond to your hypothesis: both my parents, my brother and my girlfriend are introverts; I observe them in non-social-settings all the time, and they do sleep more than me, and tend to be less active than me. Again, this doesn't lead to any universal law - just an observation. In fact, most psychology is derived from observation. Do you think that MBTI and socionics have been created from a set of abstract axioms?

1) Is derive energy from being alone with themselves
2) When we sleep, we are typically alone.
3) Thus, Is enjoy sleeping less than Es.

I can't see how 3) follows from 2) & 1). If sleeping is an alone-activity, introverts will enjoy it more, right? Or you mean that introverts are more energetic when alone, being energetic is the opposite of sleeping, thus they find it harder to sleep?

Anyway, you seem to be hell-bent on winning this debate from my perspective, for no clear reason. If you want to start with the-serious-debate-mode, it's okay, but we both know it's never going to lead us anywhere.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
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YMCA
Unless I've got enough out of a day, sleep can feel like giving in to something or ending the chapter too soon. I enjoy sleep when I'm satisfied with things though, and I enjoy oversleeping once I start.
 

Kambro

Member
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Aug 12, 2008
Messages
205
MBTI Type
INTX
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5w6?
Mmm...in my experience, Is like sleeping much more than Es.

Anyway, I personally wish I didn't need to sleep. So much time of my life wasted.

My IRL ENTJ says she loves her sleep. I barely sleep on the other hand :)
 

Chloe

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
:yim_rolling_on_the_
Interesting observation indeed. Yup... Bf, cousin, other cousin, friends... check. I always thought it was curious. Notice in my bf especially, he has to sleep at least 2-3 hrs more per night than I do. Perhaps because my schedule is always go go go?
:coffee:

hah, yeah, actually I noticed that strong introverts sleep more, my INTP friend he needs 10-12 hours of sleep per day. I

E's never stop interacting with each other, even in sleep. When an E goes to sleep, little do they know, they all go to the same dream land and continue to interact with each other. :ninja:

OMG, i think that's it!!!

Heh, I wonder if Es have more vivid dreams than Is...

*EDIT* Maybe I'll start a thread on this some time if there's not already one and/or if I'm ever proactive enough to do it...

I have vivid dreams.

haha, i have vivid/lucid dreams all the time. When I have exams I usually repeat lessons in them. :shock: Not very exciting. :D I also can vividly have sex dream. :smile: It's soo good to be able to make a man a perfect lover!

there's nothing like waking up in the morning/afternoon/evening/whenever and extroverting your genitals.

:yim_rolling_on_the_
 

Trepidation

New member
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Oct 11, 2009
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108
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ISTP
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5w6
SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK!

I never want to go to bed at night, but I never want to get up in the morning. My alarm clock, however, will usually not let that shit fly and I never get enough sleep as a result. I'm so glad I don't have to get up at six in the morning anymore, even if it's only for a couple of months.

It's currently ten past two in the morning here, and I plan on staying up all night. I'll grab a coffee and watch the sunrise, or at least what I can see of it from my house. I wish I lived closer to the beach.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
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Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
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8w9
I have a damn near impossible task in trying to get to sleep most nights.
 

NewEra

New member
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Dec 21, 2008
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3,104
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I
It has nothing to do with MBTI. It's the study of biology which tells us that humans need sleep.

SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK!

Sleep is for the weak, Apu! Now I'm going to bed while you read over my 9th grade history notes.
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
2,805
MBTI Type
INFJ
I love to sleep, but I can't do it anymore.:cry:
I used to be able to sleep half the day, but now, even if I actually could sleep half the day, my body just can't. It pops up at the exact same time every morning, no matter how much sleep I've gotten.
What I don't need are mornings. My brain doesn't function properly until about 11:30am, and my body doesn't work well until after 1pm.:D I usually stay up until 3am.
 

teslashock

Geolectric
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Allright, I didn't mean to imply that there is an universal logical rule connecting introversion with sleep duration. However, to respond to your hypothesis: both my parents, my brother and my girlfriend are introverts; I observe them in non-social-settings all the time, and they do sleep more than me, and tend to be less active than me. Again, this doesn't lead to any universal law - just an observation. In fact, most psychology is derived from observation. Do you think that MBTI and socionics have been created from a set of abstract axioms?

No, but I think MBTI correlations are based off of a wider premise than 4 individual cases. In psychology, as is true of all sciences, once a correlation is found among a wide number of people, an attempt at finding a deeper cause that explains the correlation is usually undergone. I'm not asking for a universal law here. I understand how ambiguous MBTI can be; I was just looking for something other than "I know these people who do this, therefore that."



I can't see how 3) follows from 2) & 1). If sleeping is an alone-activity, introverts will enjoy it more, right? Or you mean that introverts are more energetic when alone, being energetic is the opposite of sleeping, thus they find it harder to sleep?

The bold. It's just a Ti argument though and probably holds no actual validity. I brought it up to point out the kinds of reasons that could go beyond personal experience though. Again, I really don't think that sleeping patterns/frequencies can be applied to the realm of MBTI though; it's just a biological necessity to which all people must succumb.

Anyway, you seem to be hell-bent on winning this debate from my perspective, for no clear reason. If you want to start with the-serious-debate-mode, it's okay, but we both know it's never going to lead us anywhere.

I'm not hell bent on winning anything; I just think debating is fun. There is no reason for debating this outside of the fact that I enjoy debating. Talking about potential correlations probably won't get us anywhere meaningful; you're right. It's a fun thought exercise though, nonetheless.
 

Flush

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May 19, 2008
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203
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INFP
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5w4
Anyone who both sleeps and claims to be E is mistyped.
 

teslashock

Geolectric
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
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Anyone who both sleeps and claims to be E is mistyped.

You're right; the world is just chock full of a bunch of Is! Extroversion is nothing but an illusory theory...kind of like gravity, right?
 

Mole

Permabanned
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Messages
20,284
No, but I think MBTI correlations are based off of a wider premise than 4 individual cases. In psychology, as is true of all sciences, once a correlation is found among a wide number of people, an attempt at finding a deeper cause that explains the correlation is usually undergone.

Any Psychology Department in any accredited University will tell you that MBTI is an invalid and unreliable personality test.

In fact they regard MBTI as risible and on par with astrology.

Since WW II MBTI has become a very popular and lucrative American cult that appeals to the non compos mentis.
 

Chloe

New member
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May 1, 2009
Messages
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Anyone who both sleeps and claims to be E is mistyped.

Maybe...:shock:

Any Psychology Department in any accredited University will tell you that MBTI is an invalid and unreliable personality test.

In fact they regard MBTI as risible and on par with astrology.

It's so silly they do so, and at the same time they consider various mostly idiotic and questionable diagnosis, such as all personality disorders, reliable.
 
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