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Personality traits most valued in your country?

ps646566

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Oct 23, 2007
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32
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INTJ
Okay I fail totally in seeing how you arrived at this conclusion. Could you illuminate me?

ISTJ as I understand it savours of the conservative, conformist, reserved, loyal, organised, stiff-upper-lip kind of person who typified the Englishman -- always a gross generalisation of course. England has changed and the young are predominantly not like this, nor do they aspire to be. An extrovert personality is now favoured -- witness the immense popularity of 'reality television' and the preoccupation with 'celebrity'. We are a live-for-today society -- faddish, fashion-obsessed, short-termist, and rather shallow. Also the 'touchy-feely' approach is favoured over the stiff-upper-lip -- thus the preoccupation with things like diversity, human rights, and political correctness. This to me is all more ESFX than ISTJ.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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ISTJ as I understand it savours of the conservative, conformist, reserved, loyal, organised, stiff-upper-lip kind of person who typified the Englishman -- always a gross generalisation of course. England has changed and the young are predominantly not like this, nor do they aspire to be. An extrovert personality is now favoured -- witness the immense popularity of 'reality television' and the preoccupation with 'celebrity'. We are a live-for-today society -- faddish, fashion-obsessed, short-termist, and rather shallow. Also the 'touchy-feely' approach is favoured over the stiff-upper-lip -- thus the preoccupation with things like diversity, human rights, and political correctness. This to me is all more ESFX than ISTJ.
The country itself is more ISTJ than anything, the counter culture you're observing is most likely to be ENFP, hence the popularity of facebook and it's ilk. No matter how huggy they get and how over the top they act most people still work away quite merrily in a set of rules which require a person to be a walking encyclopaedia of formalities and expectations. I suppose though that the precise entries required vary according to the context. No matter what group you're talking about there's enough strictures to require a person to really pay attention before they can meld in with them.

Watch how the english divide, we separate people into pigeon holes and then deal with them according to the hole they have been allocated. We rarely deal with people as who they are or try to understand their motivations or desires. For this alone I'd rule out any ESF profile but more so they lack the NT undertones which go with SFs. Wind up the english and they become irrational not calculating.

I suppose there is the argument though that whilst we may be one type we value another more. That just doesn't compute though.
 

Firey

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Nov 2, 2007
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ISTP
Seeing as I've little experience with the MBTI thingy, I can only take a bit of a stab. xD;;;

In my country, Singapore ( lil' island in the sea in South East Asia ), I think that SJ-ish qualities are most valued. Because model Singaporeans are seen as organised, responsible and very commited to the community, see. Plus, the rigid laws there are quite suitable for an SJ-ish environment to flourish.

In S'Pore, most of the business-y jobs are office and desk bound activities, which is something that most SJs would find fine. Plus, what with all the values of Chinese familial loyalty and all sorts of traditions and whatnot there, SJs would be very appreciated and accepted, since SJs, according to what I've learned about them, seem to like the whole value and conventional thing.

In Singapore, obedience is treasured: obedience to family, laws, rules, teachers, bosses, values and a lot of other stuff too. So...yeah. That's why I think that SJs would be most valued in Singapore.

-slinks away shyly-
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
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I think I'm generally well appreciated here.
 

TaylorS

Aspie Idealist
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INFP
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so/sp
Ah that explains why you seem such an English gent. England is most definitely ISTJ. Tight down to the well groomed little bowler hat which serves no useful purpose at all but was somehow decided upon as the standard.

That sounds right, IMO (or at least fits my stereotypes of Brits)

My guesses for other countries

Canada: ISTP
France: ENFJ
Germany: INTJ
Italy: ESFJ
Ireland: ISFJ
Australia: ESTP
Russia: ESTJ
China: ISFJ

Western society in general: ENTJ
 

substitute

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I think while earlier I said France is very Ne friendly, the UK seems to be quite... well... I dunno, it's very cosmopolitan so it's hard to say what type or trait is most valued because there are huge gaps between the generations.

The older generation males probably value Te/Si most, while the females probably Fe.

The middle generation it's probably still the same for females, but less Si for males.

The younger generation... probably a combination of Se, Fi and Ne.

There are generation divisions in France too, but in my part of it, not anywhere near so much as all over the UK. I mean I can approach old guys for a light on a town square bench and end up chatting away with them in a very Ne way, just the same as might happen with a younger person on a tram who I help operate the ticket machine. People in France just talk to each other a lot more than in the UK, so I think probably it's a more extravert type of culture.
 

Xander

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Western society in general: ENTJ
My father would probably most strongly disagree with this (he's an ENTJ). He's always said "there's only one way to do something and that's the right way". I usually added "Is that your way then?" with the predictable response of "Yes". According to him very little is done correctly and so I can't see the west being ENTJ. Overall I think there are very few N based countries. They tend to be the more outlandish places where innovation is rewarded. Definitely not the trend in Europe where you're never rewarded unless you stick to the system.
 

ps646566

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Oct 23, 2007
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INTJ
The country itself is more ISTJ than anything, the counter culture you're observing is most likely to be ENFP, hence the popularity of facebook and it's ilk.

I just looked at a type description of ENFP. It seems to fit Tony Blair perfectly -- he who has, sadly in my view, had such an influence over the culture of modern Britain.
 

wildcat

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The country itself is more ISTJ than anything, the counter culture you're observing is most likely to be ENFP, hence the popularity of facebook and it's ilk. No matter how huggy they get and how over the top they act most people still work away quite merrily in a set of rules which require a person to be a walking encyclopaedia of formalities and expectations. I suppose though that the precise entries required vary according to the context. No matter what group you're talking about there's enough strictures to require a person to really pay attention before they can meld in with them.

Watch how the english divide, we separate people into pigeon holes and then deal with them according to the hole they have been allocated. We rarely deal with people as who they are or try to understand their motivations or desires. For this alone I'd rule out any ESF profile but more so they lack the NT undertones which go with SFs. Wind up the english and they become irrational not calculating.

I suppose there is the argument though that whilst we may be one type we value another more. That just doesn't compute though.
It is not about the type.
It is about tradition and culture.

All of the places I have lived in, England scores the number one.

The stiff upper lip is only a precaution against fools. It does not characterize the person.

Smile when you address them. Be apologetic in a funny, humorous way. Pay respect, but not directly. Do not fawn. Be your own self.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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my female entj best friend feels incredibly out of place, too masculine, too aggressive, to be acceptable. she's told me this repeatedly. perhaps a male entj wouldn't be in the same position?
 

miss fortune

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don't you know? Girls are supposed to be Feelers while guys are supposed to be Thinkers! :D

yeah- it does occasionally suck to be on the wrong side of that divide!
 

Domino

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i've had many a Feeler male friend give me a look like he was dying, many a Thinker female looking like they were completely dismissed or shunted aside as irrational. it doesn't pay to be an F-male or T-female generally.
 

FDG

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My father would probably most strongly disagree with this (he's an ENTJ). He's always said "there's only one way to do something and that's the right way".

Sounds stupid. There is at least one way to do things in the most efficient way, and it is surely out there. Sometimes I think I have discovered one of them, but there isn't any exclusivity. Whether something is right or not depends entirely on their goals, and on the rights of other people.
 

The Ü™

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The US in general seems to have a ESTP persona, IMO. Minnesotans in general have an ISFJ ("Minnesota Nice" and all that) persona IMO

The stereotype for America has historically been ENTJ -- it's quite obvious. Dogmatic views, lust for power, and very innovative.

North America
  • United States: ENTJ
  • Canada: ESFJ
  • Mexico: ISFP

Europe/Eurasia
  • England: ISTJ
  • Germany: INTJ
  • France: IxFP
  • Italy: ESFJ
  • Greece: INTP
  • Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland): ISFJ
  • Commie Russia: ENTJ

Far East Asia
  • China: INTJ
  • Japan: ENTJ

Other
  • Middle East: INFJ

PLEASE NOTE: Not all countries are listed (obviously). So don't think I'm an idiot. (I'm not sure of, for example, India, North and South Korea, Nam, etc.)
 

wildcat

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The stereotype for America has historically been ENTJ -- it's quite obvious. Dogmatic views, lust for power, and very innovative.

North America
  • United States: ENTJ
  • Canada: ESFJ
  • Mexico: ISFP

Europe/Eurasia
  • England: ISTJ
  • Germany: INTJ
  • France: IxFP
  • Italy: ESFJ
  • Greece: INTP
  • Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland): ISFJ
  • Commie Russia: ENTJ

Far East Asia
  • China: INTJ
  • Japan: ENTJ

Other
  • Middle East: INFJ

PLEASE NOTE: Not all countries are listed (obviously). So don't think I'm an idiot. (I'm not sure of, for example, India, North and South Korea, Nam, etc.)
In your dreams.
 

substitute

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Uberfuhrer, are you talking about the stereotype character of the countries as a whole, as they're seen by foreigners? Or are you talking about the most common traits actually shown by their citizens, from your own experience?

Just wondering.
 

TenebrousReflection

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I hope this is in the right subforum.

Something I have been thinking about lately is the fact that certain countries or cultures will, as a general trend, tend to value certain personality traits over others. (In fact, I believe there was a book written regarding this topic, but I haven't read it.) In terms of MBTI functions, which traits do you think your country or culture prefers? I have heard it said that in the United States, or even the west generally, ESTJ traits are favored (I have primarily heard this said by INFPs, the ESTJs' MBTI opposite). I kind of think this is correct.

Where in the Wold Do I Belong by Brent Massey covers the topic of type and countries. Its one of those books I have not read completely, but read from occasionally and it does have some interesting ideas. Let me see if I can find one of the more interesting ideas from it to quote...

Where in the Wold Do I Belong by Brent Massey

Type isn't just a set of traits or a list of adjectives - its and indicator of a bigger picture. The four letter type code indicates which of the eight mental processes/functions is our favorite. This favorite is the sole driving force in a person or culture. Forget about lists of traits and behaviors and just learn how each mental process functions. This is the way to truly understand the mind of a person or a culture.

Our mental processes are biologically hardwired in our brain. We use our favorite function in either the public outer world or the private inner world. The inner world draws on principles and values, past and future experiences. The outer world draws on societies expectations, laws, the here and now and infinite possibilities.

Our favorite process/function is partly unconscious. That is why you may find people, foods, languages, religions that somehow click with your own mental process partly on a subconscious/unconscious level. This is the kind of connection or experience that gives you joy and peace but you don't know why. It's too deeply psychological and spiritual to explain. It's like following your personal calling. You don't usually know the destination but for some reason you know you are headed in the right direction and it gives you joy and peace.

The author applies a scale for type to each country of 1 to 3 for each side of each axis
USA
E = 3
S = 2
T = 3
J = 1
and adds the following comments.
American culture is also original (N), tolerant (part of the accepting facet of feeling), casual (P), and open-ended (P).

The book goes on for several pages to explain the reasoning for the conclusion and seems mostly based on strong represtation of Te and Si and uses examples like the political system, legal system, prevalance of capatlism and consumerism (which the author equates to Si).

I think what is valued by the masses varies from state to state, and even from city to city within each state. I've met a few people from Seattle, Portland (Or) and various parts of South Western Canada that seemed to think a lot like me, but don't know if they are as out of place where they are or if their cities might actually be a better fit for an INFx (I suspect Seattle and Portland would be good places for xNTx and Canada for xNFx but those are just my perceptions).

FWIW, the author of that book lists France as the following.
E - 1
N - 1
T - 2
J - 2
French culture also is traditional (S), Empathic (F), Spontaneous (P), and Emergent (P).

For intuitive types like the French, thoughts are epxressed just for the sake of ideas. The french 'rationale' relates to the thinking facets of reason and logic. France's freethinking, armchain intellectuals wander from one topic to the next in an exchange of ideas as ENTJs they expect everyone in both social and work situations to have a well thought out arguement, critical feedback or to keep quiet.
 

autumn

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Oct 5, 2007
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Yes, TenebrousReflection, that's the book! So it does have the United States as ESTJ! I do like how it highlights the other functions that are significantly represented too. And yes, I do think there are regional differences. I wonder how those would be represented.
 
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