Personality traits most valued in your country?

[GZA]

There isn't any direct bias towars any specific type, just a slight, but noticable, preference towards ESTJ and similar personalities. Its not that people literally, conciously prefer these types, it sjust in the way things are set up. For example, schools are set-up in a way that clearly prefers E's (sticking a bunch of kids in a classroom), generally leans towards an S appraoch (by putting all the lessons in a very step-by-step approach. Let me say that more than once I didn't understand at all what was being taught untill the final step was shwon and it instantly, and intuitively, clicked together). The T approach kind of goes without saying, the majority of classes try to do objective, logical analysis. Some classes have more balance, such as Law, and some classes should, but don't have a good balance, such as English (which at my school seems more TJ than FP, and I think it needs to be balanced in English especially). The J preference is in the various structures -class structure, lesson plans, writing formats, ect.

So, its not like its a system where only ESTJ's can work, but there certainly seems to be a subtle preference for that, and I think that it is most unfortunate in English class, because instead of really looking at language and what can be done with it, both in terms of objective anlysis and creative anlysis and creative writing, we are instead taught to write using specific formats about specific topics from a list. That doesn't even feel like education, thats more like skill building -a format can be learned pretty easily without a teacher, but developing ideas is something that is better to be taught in schools, how to develop and illustrate ideas. That can be done without schools, but it seems best to work on it in schools. Writing formats are superficial in terms of education, they don't really add anything to the writing and are worhtless as far as I'm concerned. They shouldn't even exist.

General society has a similar slight preferance for ESTJ, simply because more people posses those traits (be it individually, or in pairs, such as being TJ or ET or ES, ect, or being the full ESTJ). Also, the people who run and organize most things, the poeple in power, are generally in that realm as well.

But... here in Canada I guess the J-P line is more ambiguous. A lot of our great leaders have been P, I think, and we are generally very liberal in terms of rights... so maybe its more like ESTX. I still don't think we are really all that F -we are probably more F than the U.S., but we are probably still T dominated in terms of our leadership. The U.S. come soff as super TJ in terms of how its run, but Canada is more F and P, but still more T than F (maybe 60 for T and 40 for F). This is in terms of the governemnt, the political parts of the countires, and what politicans do, not so much the common people and every day society.

 

[songofcalamity]

Seeing as I've little experience with the MBTI thingy, I can only take a bit of a stab. xD;;;

In my country, Singapore ( lil' island in the sea in South East Asia ), I think that SJ-ish qualities are most valued. Because model Singaporeans are seen as organised, responsible and very commited to the community, see. Plus, the rigid laws there are quite suitable for an SJ-ish environment to flourish.

In S'Pore, most of the business-y jobs are office and desk bound activities, which is something that most SJs would find fine. Plus, what with all the values of Chinese familial loyalty and all sorts of traditions and whatnot there, SJs would be very appreciated and accepted, since SJs, according to what I've learned about them, seem to like the whole value and conventional thing.

In Singapore, obedience is treasured: obedience to family, laws, rules, teachers, bosses, values and a lot of other stuff too. So...yeah. That's why I think that SJs would be most valued in Singapore.

-slinks away shyly-

I agree about Singapore being an SJ country. But I think it's more ISxJ. SJ qualities are definitely valued in Singapore. The laws and education system in Singapore are very strict and rigid. It seemed that the education system in Singapore values and emphasized on Science, Mathematics & English only.

And seeing that Singapore is being ruled with meritocracy. They need to see proof of your talent and effort before you can get a stable office job here. And SJ wants and needs proof.

 

[edel weiss]

In Indian society... I don't think the E or I matters too much. They seem to be fine with other, although they definitely prefer E's in cities. S, S and S all the way. Being N just makes you 'weird'. F's for females, T's for males. And the educational system is heavily biased towards J's.

So that'd be SFJ for women, and STJ for men. I'm always on the wrong side.

 

[heart]

I can say there's a distinction even amongst the subculture of being Southern. ESTP/ESTJ for the men. ISTJ/ISFJ for the women. Being an F male isn't generally acceptable, with the exception of an ISFJ male.

In Texas they seemed to want E girls.

 

[Valiant]

Swedes favour ESTJ's, Irish culture favour ESTP, ENTJ and ESFP (or just about anyone who can be a lot of fun in the pub. Read: comedians) I think Irish girl ideals are somewhere along the lines of INFJ, for the kind of girl you'd want to marry that is. ESTP/ESFP girls have some massive gravitational force that draws dudes, but i'd never ever consider a stable relationship with one unless there were some serious proof of inner balance

 

[skip]

SJ.

 

[babelfish]

USA is for sure an ESTJ with its primary function extraverted thinking and secondary one introverted sensing. Besides the USA and Australia (both originally colonies of ESTJ England), ESTJs and ISTJs are all European countries. The ESTJ American, English and Dutch have differences, though. The English are more contained, accomodating or indirect, whereas the Dutch and Americans are not. The English clearly prefer order and tradition, whereas the Dutch and Americans prefer to be unconventional and casual. The Dutch may be more similar to the Americans than the English but the Dutch are obviously empathic with their concern for the welfare of others, whereas Americans tend to be logical and impersonal.

America is a pretty cold country. You are reminded of that expression 'We are a nation of laws' that politicians frequently state. A friend of mine says, "being impersonal is the only way to be" -- and he is not joking. Extraverted thinking types like the establishment of order and logic that laws provide, despite the obvious disregard for the human side of the equation. This is also the reason for the contractual nature of American society.

American thinking preference is seen in its love of competition in sports and business. Americans are taught to be "RAM tough" and be willing to get in a fight or go to war to prove we ain't gonna be kicked around. Individuals are responsible for succeeding on their own, and the homeless are just people who don't want to work. Americans have to take as much stress as it takes to succeed. One Australian commented after visiting New York, "What's the problem with Americans? Why are they so uptight?" One American embassy employee replied, "As Embassy staff it wouldn't be appropriate for us to convey our personal feelings." This is classic extraverted thinking -- feelings are not appropriate. As a thinking type, American culture does not prefer the accomodating facet of feeling.

American extraverted thinking culture is ends-oriented, and develops 'mechanisms' for dealing with and solving problems. Americans expect everyone to fit in and be productive. Extraverted thinking types have principles and laws they live by and built an intellectual theory of logical organization of the world. This theory guides their personal actions and interactions with others. They personally believe and follow their theory and believe the rest of the world should be like America and tries to aggressively 'organize' the world. Even today, Americans continue corporate globalization and forceful democratization (i.e., 'live free or die') of the world. Democracy is a feeling-based system (harmony, consensus, tolerance, etc) but capitalism is based on the thinking logic of economics -- one that doesn't have human considerations. On the white horse of democracy is the dark rider of capitalism.

ESTJs can be blind to other points of view. Americans fail to understand and embrace other countries and cultures... Americans, as thinking types, have a tendency to be challenging and competitive, yet may occasionally prefer harmony. We love to observe debate, but when it comes down to it, we seem to prefer harmony as evidenced by the lack of efficacy in negative campaigns. As a culture, we prefer the positive while having a morbid sense of curiosity for the Jerry Springer-type of entertainment.

Americans are thinking types, yet may feign acceptance and tolerance in some circumstances. The USA, actually, is a troublesome little fellow to try to analyze as a culture because what we value based on our actions is so very different based on what we claim to hold important. USA is not in reality very accepting, but with political correctness and other social pressures people keep some judgments to themselves more than they would. It's like a form of cognitive dissonance since we are really rather judgmental, but have decided that we should not be, which likely results in more than a little self-flagellation.

 

[babelfish]

American culture is an extraverted thinking culture, but it also has a secondary preference for introverted sensing, types that are interested in commerce. The USA is a consumer society and Americans like commercials, advertising, promotions, sales, etc. The TV infomercials are filled with get-rich, start-your-own-business, and home business programs like how to flip properties, medical billing from home, multi-level marketing, etc. Some people say that English is the language of commerce; well, USA is a nation of commerce. Why do so many people want to come here? Sure it's that freedom thing, but wouldn't you agree, it's mostly for the money?

There is a misconception that the USA is the most technologically advanced country. For example, compared to the USA, people living in countries like Japan and Korea can get a 100 times faster high-speed Internet access in their homes. One American attended an European conference on digital resources and was surprised at how advanced the Europeans were. She returned home to report what she had learned, but found her American co-workers weren't interested. They were determined to believe that the Europeans couldn't possibly know more than Americans about technology. Technological advancements are easier to see than social differences. There is also the American misconception that the USA is the most socially advanced society. Yet, when you live in other countries you find there are many different ways of life that are superior to American ways. Quality of life is better through the choices a society makes. These choices are the result of the culture type. A society that is a thinking culture will make very different choices from a feeling culture.

The American government doesn't publish stats on where Americans emigrate to, but there are loads of stats on immigrants coming to the USA. It's as if subconsciously Americans believe people only want to come to the USA and no American would want to leave it. But Americans do leave the USA, for social, cultural, and other reasons. Canada (a feeling type culture) has received a large number of American immigrants, especially after W. Bush was reelected. One Ontario Canadian commented, "Americans are immigrating to Canada for the better quality of life, national healthcare, and higher minimum wage, but many Canadian doctors are moving to the USA because they can make more money. One Australian joked that the biggest illegal immigration problem they have is with Americans.

Americans may think of themselves as also having a few intuitive traits. The USA is very structured, but also built on resourceful, inventive and entrepreneural people. Some of the USA is theoretical and well-read (northeast) and some experiental. One east-coast American thought practical (sensing) represented the blue collar and conceptual (intuition) the white collar. Americans trust experience, yet may have a hard time separating that from theories. I doubt most Americans actually understand the difference. See any news report that starts with, 'According to a recent study,' as an example how Americans don't successfully separate hard, empirical science from the theoretical and initial observations. We are more pseudo-intellectuals and more of an instant gratification culture. Therefore we are more results-oriented. We don't want to think too much, we just want some product or service right at this instant.

The warrior and seeker are the dominant archetypes in American culture. The USA is a "Warrior/Seeker" culture in which we are surrounded by self-improvement schemes, all of which are designed to help us live up to some standard or other. The sage was determined as the dominant archetype in Eastern Buddhist culture; on the other hand, Western Christianity is a "Ruler/Magician religion." Additionally, the magician and jester archetypes are part of the African and American Indian cultures. Archetypes play out in individual lives and cultures like dominant themes that come and go in a cyclical way. The German culture played out the dark side of the destroyer during WWII and rebirthed to a new country after the fall of the Berlin wall. Currently, France with its riots is also playing out the destroyer as one of its rising archetypes. The destroyer is a reoccuring archetype as seen in France's history of revolution. France is an ENTJ and has a destroyer archetype rising and subsiding throughout its history. Maybe other NT countries share this same archetype experience.

 

[booyalab]

One American attended an European conference on digital resources and was surprised at how advanced the Europeans were. She returned home to report what she had learned, but found her American co-workers weren't interested.

Oh yeah? Well there was another American that went to Europe and was like "oh man, their technology sucks." and then he came back and he was like "yay! I'm back!" and all his American co-workers were like "yup, our technology is advanced." and they all agreed and btw I heard this somewhere but i don't know where or who was involved but it's true, honest.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Oh yeah? Well there was another American that went to Europe and was like "oh man, their technology sucks." and then he came back and he was like "yay! I'm back!" and all his American co-workers were like "yup, our technology is advanced." and they all agreed and btw I heard this somewhere but i don't know where or who was involved but it's true, honest.

USA is one country , Europe is 30+ countries.

It all depends where you go.

 

[booyalab]

USA is one country , Europe is 30+ countries.

I don't know about that...could you cite your sources?

 

[Virtual ghost]

By Europe I mean Europe not EU.

I could name them myself if needed.

 

[copula3]

[...]

The warrior and seeker are the dominant archetypes in American culture. The USA is a "Warrior/Seeker" culture in which we are surrounded by self-improvement schemes, all of which are designed to help us live up to some standard or other. The sage was determined as the dominant archetype in Eastern Buddhist culture; on the other hand, Western Christianity is a "Ruler/Magician religion." Additionally, the magician and jester archetypes are part of the African and American Indian cultures. Archetypes play out in individual lives and cultures like dominant themes that come and go in a cyclical way. The German culture played out the dark side of the destroyer during WWII and rebirthed to a new country after the fall of the Berlin wall. Currently, France with its riots is also playing out the destroyer as one of its rising archetypes. The destroyer is a reoccuring archetype as seen in France's history of revolution. France is an ENTJ and has a destroyer archetype rising and subsiding throughout its history. Maybe other NT countries share this same archetype experience.

Indeed, for intuitive types, like the French, thoughts are expressed just for the sake of ideas. The French 'rationale' relates to the thinking facets of reason and logic. France's freethinking arm-chair intellectuals wander from one topic to the next in an exchange of ideas. As ENTJs they expect everyone in both social and work situations to have a well thought-out argument, critical feedback or to keep quiet. Unlike sensing Americans, for the French, ideas don't have to have a practical application. Their propensity for intellectual debate makes their intuition obvious and their stubborn confidence shows their extroverted thinking side. The relationship between the French and Americans sometimes is opinionated, arrogant, extraverted thinking types each one thinking they are right.

 

[Colors]

The book goes on for several pages to explain the reasoning for the conclusion and seems mostly based on strong represtation of Te and Si and uses examples like the political system, legal system, prevalance of capatlism and consumerism (which the author equates to Si).

Wouldn't consumerism be more Se, not Si? The US is more ESTP than ESTJ- which you can see when you compare it to various countries around the world.

As for individuals I am less sure, but it seems for males, ESTP is valued (or more specifically- T and Se is valued and Fi devalued).

For females, ESFJ is valued. As I am a female, I am more sensitive to traits considered valuable in women, so I'd consider the functions ranked (from most valued to least valued): Fe > Te > Se > Fi > Si > Ne > Ni > Ti

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I don't know (or care) about MBTI qualities, but in the US, I'd say:

-- Ambition, success, capitalism
-- Patriotism
-- Traditional values

In Los Angeles:

-- Ambition, success, fame
-- Spirituality
-- Popularity

 

[LindseyLadybug]

I have heard it said that in the United States, or even the west generally, ESTJ traits are favored (I have primarily heard this said by INFPs, the ESTJs' MBTI opposite). I kind of think this is correct.

Yeah, I think you could be right. I've never stopped to think about a specific type but I know for sure America values extroversion over introversion. Here's a quote from a book I'm currently reading: "America was built on rugged individualism and the importance of citizens speaking their minds. We value action, speed, competition, and drive."

However, if your society favors the traits of a type very different from yours, I think a very real effect is that you may be looked at as "flawed", when in fact that is only a cultural perception and not an objective reality.

Evidence of this (as far as extrovert preference goes) is our dictionaries' definitions of "introversion." Here are some words used to describe them. This is appalling!

"tends to turn away from reality"
"a preoccupation with the self"
"lack of sociability"
"passiveness"
"the state or tendency toward being wholly or predominately concerned with and interested in one's own mental life"
"a brooder"
"self-observer"
"egoist"
"narcissist"
"solitary"
"loner"

And what are the definitions for "extrovert," you might ask? (These are from the same sources, by the way.)

"a tendency to project the personality outward"
"a man of action"
"one whose motives are conditioned by external events"
"interest in the outside world"
"confidence"
"sociability"
"assertiveness"
"dominance"
"friendly"
"uninhibited"
"other-directed"
"gregarious"
"life of the party"
"show-off"

 

[Neo Genesis]

In Los Angeles:

-- Ambition, success, fame
-- Spirituality
-- Popularity

I'm not sure about that one. It may have just been my perception, but most people I knew weren't worried too much about non-material things. The other two, without a doubt.

 

[Nihilen]

Money.

Belonging to one's respective sect.

Populism.

 

[Blackmail!]

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the rest, but it seems you agree with me about France being quite Ne-ish. Varies a lot though, from region to region.

Well, we are three french here, and we all agree France is a Ne-dominated society.

Interesting, isn't it?

Good point to start.

---

I'd say such appreciation of countries may greatly vary according to your own point of view. For instance, I have been extremely surprized to read that some Swedes consider their country as "Extrovert", while it is rather famed throughout Europe fort its severe lack of humor, insensitiveness and deep seriousness. There's nothing more boring than a Swedish town after 17h when every shops and services are closed, if there wasn't the legendary swedish girls's sexual appetite.

---

Thus if I come back to France, I'd say as a french, I would perceive my own country as very ENTPish. The French often like to debate just for the sake of ideas, mainly politics and philosophy, we're all very cliché on that; and we're very fond of dark, provocative humor. France is a very rational society (one of the most atheistic nations in the world), but not very efficiently organized (hence P), despite our love for centralization.

An American, on the other hand, would rather see France as an ENFP country, especially when you see our own history (we never were a truly agressive nation nor a militaristic society, but a very idealistic one which always prefered culture and Art when they had the choice). France always lacked the will to rule the world (like Spain or Britannia had), even when it had the historical possibility to do so.

But an Italian would probably see their north-western neighbours as anything but extroverts, and would surely consider us as the epitome of the INTP society: always complaining, always feeling grumpy! And he would be right, somehow...

---

Therefore, I'd say the way we link dominant archetypes to countries rather explains a lot more about who you are, than about what is really going on within those countries.

Thus, according to my own very subjective bias, I would perceive countries like this:

France: ENTP
USA: ESFJ
Germany: IxTJ -most nordic countries are like that-
England: INTP
Italy: ESFP
Japan: ISTJ -just like China and Korea, at various degrees-
Russia: ISTP
Spain: ESTP
Israel: ENTJ
Arab countries: ISFJ

And I would never pretend to be accurate or serious about this list, I did it only for fun.

 

[FDG]

We don't see French that way, actually - I think northern Italian's culture is similar to French culture; at the very least, I did not notice a sizeable difference the times I visited the country.