The warrior and seeker are the dominant archetypes in American culture. The USA is a "Warrior/Seeker" culture in which we are surrounded by self-improvement schemes, all of which are designed to help us live up to some standard or other. The sage was determined as the dominant archetype in Eastern Buddhist culture; on the other hand, Western Christianity is a "Ruler/Magician religion." Additionally, the magician and jester archetypes are part of the African and American Indian cultures. Archetypes play out in individual lives and cultures like dominant themes that come and go in a cyclical way. The German culture played out the dark side of the destroyer during WWII and rebirthed to a new country after the fall of the Berlin wall. Currently, France with its riots is also playing out the destroyer as one of its rising archetypes. The destroyer is a reoccuring archetype as seen in France's history of revolution. France is an ENTJ and has a destroyer archetype rising and subsiding throughout its history. Maybe other NT countries share this same archetype experience.
Indeed, for intuitive types, like the French, thoughts are expressed just for the sake of ideas. The French 'rationale' relates to the thinking facets of reason and logic. France's freethinking arm-chair intellectuals wander from one topic to the next in an exchange of ideas. As ENTJs they expect everyone in both social and work situations to have a well thought-out argument, critical feedback or to keep quiet. Unlike sensing Americans, for the French, ideas don't have to have a practical application. Their propensity for intellectual debate makes their intuition obvious and their stubborn confidence shows their extroverted thinking side. The relationship between the French and Americans sometimes is opinionated, arrogant, extraverted thinking types each one thinking they are right.
The book goes on for several pages to explain the reasoning for the conclusion and seems mostly based on strong represtation of Te and Si and uses examples like the political system, legal system, prevalance of capatlism and consumerism (which the author equates to Si).
Wouldn't consumerism be more Se, not Si? The US is more ESTP than ESTJ- which you can see when you compare it to various countries around the world.
As for individuals I am less sure, but it seems for males, ESTP is valued (or more specifically- T and Se is valued and Fi devalued).
For females, ESFJ is valued. As I am a female, I am more sensitive to traits considered valuable in women, so I'd consider the functions ranked (from most valued to least valued): Fe > Te > Se > Fi > Si > Ne > Ni > Ti
I have heard it said that in the United States, or even the west generally, ESTJ traits are favored (I have primarily heard this said by INFPs, the ESTJs' MBTI opposite). I kind of think this is correct.
Yeah, I think you could be right. I've never stopped to think about a specific type but I know for sure America values extroversion over introversion. Here's a quote from a book I'm currently reading: "America was built on rugged individualism and the importance of citizens speaking their minds. We value action, speed, competition, and drive."
Originally Posted by autumn
However, if your society favors the traits of a type very different from yours, I think a very real effect is that you may be looked at as "flawed", when in fact that is only a cultural perception and not an objective reality.
Evidence of this (as far as extrovert preference goes) is our dictionaries' definitions of "introversion." Here are some words used to describe them. This is appalling!
"tends to turn away from reality"
"a preoccupation with the self"
"lack of sociability"
"the state or tendency toward being wholly or predominately concerned with and interested in one's own mental life"
And what are the definitions for "extrovert," you might ask? (These are from the same sources, by the way.)
"a tendency to project the personality outward"
"a man of action"
"one whose motives are conditioned by external events"
"interest in the outside world"
"life of the party"
Yeah, I wasn't sure about the rest, but it seems you agree with me about France being quite Ne-ish. Varies a lot though, from region to region.
Well, we are three french here, and we all agree France is a Ne-dominated society.
Interesting, isn't it?
Good point to start.
I'd say such appreciation of countries may greatly vary according to your own point of view. For instance, I have been extremely surprized to read that some Swedes consider their country as "Extrovert", while it is rather famed throughout Europe fort its severe lack of humor, insensitiveness and deep seriousness. There's nothing more boring than a Swedish town after 17h when every shops and services are closed, if there wasn't the legendary swedish girls's sexual appetite.
Thus if I come back to France, I'd say as a french, I would perceive my own country as very ENTPish. The French often like to debate just for the sake of ideas, mainly politics and philosophy, we're all very cliché on that; and we're very fond of dark, provocative humor. France is a very rational society (one of the most atheistic nations in the world), but not very efficiently organized (hence P), despite our love for centralization.
An American, on the other hand, would rather see France as an ENFP country, especially when you see our own history (we never were a truly agressive nation nor a militaristic society, but a very idealistic one which always prefered culture and Art when they had the choice). France always lacked the will to rule the world (like Spain or Britannia had), even when it had the historical possibility to do so.
But an Italian would probably see their north-western neighbours as anything but extroverts, and would surely consider us as the epitome of the INTP society: always complaining, always feeling grumpy! And he would be right, somehow...
Therefore, I'd say the way we link dominant archetypes to countries rather explains a lot more about who you are, than about what is really going on within those countries.
Thus, according to my own very subjective bias, I would perceive countries like this:
France: ENTP USA: ESFJ Germany: IxTJ -most nordic countries are like that- England: INTP Italy: ESFP Japan: ISTJ -just like China and Korea, at various degrees- Russia: ISTP Spain: ESTP Israel: ENTJ Arab countries: ISFJ
And I would never pretend to be accurate or serious about this list, I did it only for fun.
Last edited by Blackmail!; 10-30-2008 at 12:29 AM.
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