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  1. #11
    Senior Member autumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I think that ESTJ is the favored type for men, and ESFJ is the favored for women. IS_J's would be a close second, as would EN_J's. IN_J's are the least understood J's, and our culture is fairly hostile to P's in general, especially E__P's. I__P's have it a little better, but not much.
    I would tend to agree with you, for the most part. I am wondering why I__Ps would seem to have it better than E__Ps, though. Is it because the I__Ps are quieter about it? I can imagine that some I__Ps might have a hard time if extroversion is strongly encouraged, though, which is why I am curious.

  2. #12
    Senior Member autumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    The US in general seems to have a ESTP persona, IMO. Minnesotans in general have an ISFJ ("Minnesota Nice" and all that) persona IMO
    Hmm, now that I think about this, I wonder if it's fair to say that the U.S. "at play" (our entertainment, etc.) seems to be more ESTP, while our work ethic seems more xSTJ? I wonder if our international reputation is more SJ or SP.

  3. #13
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autumn View Post
    I hope this is in the right subforum.

    Something I have been thinking about lately is the fact that certain countries or cultures will, as a general trend, tend to value certain personality traits over others. (In fact, I believe there was a book written regarding this topic, but I haven't read it.) In terms of MBTI functions, which traits do you think your country or culture prefers? I have heard it said that in the United States, or even the west generally, ESTJ traits are favored (I have primarily heard this said by INFPs, the ESTJs' MBTI opposite). I kind of think this is correct.

    As far as MBTI goes, one of the great things about it is that there is really no type that is best or worst; they are just diverse and equally good/valuable. However, if your society favors the traits of a type very different from yours, I think a very real effect is that you may be looked at as "flawed", when in fact that is only a cultural perception and not an objective reality.

    Do those who are of a type whose traits are favored in any given culture tend to have an "easier" time existing in that culture? (Yes, I realize this is an inherently imprecise sort of question, given that there is no objective measure of whether one person's experiences are easier or harder than another person's, but I still think a discussion could be fruitful.)

    autumn
    ISTJ in Finland.

    ISTJ

    Do not speak unless you are drunk
    Be busy with your leaf blower
    Walk with sticks
    Beat the carpets
    Keep the motor running
    Mow the lawn to no end
    See every spectacle of sport
    Polish your guns and rifles every day
    When you eat out forget the tip
    Hate every foreigner
    Forget to shower
    Soap is for the pansy
    Crouch, cringe, bow, stoop, kneel, dangle.. in the presence of every authority

  4. #14
    Senior Member snegledmaca's Avatar
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    ISFP here. Or whatever type that has, do as little work as possible, try to get somebody else to do your work for you, get a job at your cusin's company, don't worry about the future, have fun with friends, avoid stress, generally avoid work and try to have as much fun as possible and be careless.

  5. #15
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Finland: this is the consensus with age-independent groups, young people (like me) might have different values. I am not stating my own values in here. Here's some overlap and some contradictions. Also if you disagree with my interpretations, then put the emphasis on the traits mentioned (like openness), and try to re-think the label I put for it in a new way.

    -being a common man/common woman (S, openness-)
    -taking advantage of all the new developments (openness+, NT, SP)
    -developing the society (conscientiousness+, N, openness+)
    -challenging the society (agreeableness-, openness+)
    -modesty (I, agreeableness+)
    -accomplished (independet of typology; even quirky types are appreciated once it is known that they are accomplished.)
    -humble (agreeableness+)
    -unemotionality (T, neuroticisms-)
    -hard-working (conscientiousness+)
    -caring for the society (agreeableness+)
    -stable, staying the same (J, neuroticism-)
    -low-abiding (agreeableness+)
    -matter-of-fact (S, T)
    -perserverance (STJ kind)
    -challenging the common code of silence (E)
    -daring to show emotion (F, really minority groups advocate this).

    There are more controverses in some aspects of personality than the other. T is most agreed upon, others are less.

    All put together, it becomes ISTJ, biased by the strength of each preference as interpreted from society.

    As for FFM model, we think of ourselves as so independent and challinging in our thinking that I think that many people strive to be less agreeable than the people on average, although not in an anti-social manner, but as in to present an opposing view for the improvent of society, so that no point of view goes unseen. So We have a FFM model ideal of one with low extraversion, high conscientiousness, low to average agreeableness, low neuroticism and average to high openness.
    Agreement is the best medicine ever.

  6. #16
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    ISTJ in Finland.
    Ah that explains why you seem such an English gent. England is most definitely ISTJ. Tight down to the well groomed little bowler hat which serves no useful purpose at all but was somehow decided upon as the standard.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #17
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ah that explains why you seem such an English gent. England is most definitely ISTJ. Tight down to the well groomed little bowler hat which serves no useful purpose at all but was somehow decided upon as the standard.
    Ah this explains why we are such good friends.

  8. #18
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Ah this explains why we are such good friends.
    Well that and you're a tolerate man
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #19
    Member ps646566's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ah that explains why you seem such an English gent. England is most definitely ISTJ. Tight down to the well groomed little bowler hat which serves no useful purpose at all but was somehow decided upon as the standard.
    That used to be the case in England, and probably is among some older people. But among the under 45's I think that ESFX is much more acceptable.
    INTJ bordering on ISTJ

  10. #20
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps646566 View Post
    That used to be the case in England, and probably is among some older people. But among the under 45's I think that ESFX is much more acceptable.
    Okay I fail totally in seeing how you arrived at this conclusion. Could you illuminate me?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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