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Thread: SP vs. N

  1. #11
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I think it might be good to distinguish being "open-minded" from being "flexible". Being N means a person will tend to be more open-minded while being P means a person will be more flexible.

    So NJ's for example are quite open-minded. This is because they are very imaginative. If you describe something unfamiliar to them they will be open to listening and digesting the new idea, because their imagination will help them to understand something totally unfamiliar. On the other hand once an NJ has decided the way things ought to be, then they won't readily change course in the same way that a P will. This means they are not particularly flexible. Usually an NJ needs time to reflect on their own to change the course they're on while P's do not.

    On the other hand SP's are usually not exceptionally open-minded. If you try to describe something totally unfamiliar to them, they will often get bored or give you a funny look like you're crazy/retarded. On the other hand if you demonstrate this new concept to them they will readily grasp it and will not be so opposed or disinterested. SP's are very flexible and will readily change themselves to adapt to the things in their environment. So in this way a person can say that SP's are open to new experiences, but they might not be so open to new ideas especially if they are some abstract theoretical thing that can't be readily seen in the world around them. So I'd simply describe this as very flexible but not exceptionally open-minded.

    I hope that makes sense. It's all semantics really, but I'm trying to explain what the meaning behind all of the semantics is.
    This is very good. +1
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  2. #12
    brainheart
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    Vagrant Farce directed me to this:

    Intuition

    I'm not sure how helpful it is. Basically what I get from it via my Fi is (and I am likely totally wrong):

    Ne: gullible
    Ni: paranoid

    Ne: Look at the teddy bear. It has eyes. It's soft. It's in the form of an animal. I find myself feeling affection for it due to its similarity to an animal. I wanna give it a hug.

    Ni: This is a piece of soft fabric with some plastic circles glued to the part that is shaped like a head. They want me to think they're eyes. I'm supposed to feel some sort of affection for this thing and think it's cute due to its symbolic representation of an animal, but why would I feel affection for an inanimate object?

    How each function would approach typology:

    Ne: So this is my type, I guess... unless any information comes along which reveals otherwise...

    Ni: This is my type, not that that actually means anything.

    I do both of these, often... so I don't know what that means, although I'd say Ne tends to be connected to positivity for me, optimistic enthusiasm for various possibilities (although it can also make my head swim), while when I get in the Ni space I feel negative, elitist, and nihilistic (although it can also provide transcendent moments at times).

  3. #13
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    You're being too reductive, it isn't just the difference between gullibility and paranoia. If one were to be reductive about Intuition, there's a better one at the bottom of that page:

    Ni: Seeking context by avoiding observation
    Ne: Seeking context by following observation

    Ni is about considering all the possible interpretations of something. It's about finding a way of looking at things that doesn't show itself through typical observation. You don't become aware of these perspectives through interaction, because you can't find them in the outer world. It's like changing the lens on a camera; they allow you to perceive and interpret the world in a slightly different way.

    Ne is about actively seeking a greater context in the outer world, and feeds off actual observation and participation. It's about finding hidden possibilities for action and meaning through outer context. The only time you would reinterpret something is when new, related information comes to light through an act of discovery.

    Perhaps you're confusing one (or both?) with their sensate counterparts, which don't concern themselves with context at all.
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  4. #14
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    You're being too reductive, it isn't just the difference between gullibility and paranoia. If one were to be reductive about Intuition, there's a better one at the bottom of that page:

    Ni: Seeking context by avoiding observation
    Ne: Seeking context by following observation
    Well, I was kind of joking about that... I was being purposefully too reductive. But yes, your example is more apt.


    Ni is about considering all the possible interpretations of something. It's about finding a way of looking at things that doesn't show itself through typical observation. You don't become aware of these perspectives through interaction, because you can't find them in the outer world. It's like changing the lens on a camera; they allow you to perceive and interpret the world in a slightly different way.
    So yeah... your internal perspective is uniquely calibrated, irrespective of the external, I get that. So how is the encounter with the teddy bear not like that? You aren't seeing what most other's see when they see a teddy bear... Or are you saying that what I'm describing is more like Se? Or a thinking function?

    Ne is about actively seeking a greater context in the outer world, and feeds off actual observation and participation. It's about finding hidden possibilities for action and meaning through outer context. The only time you would reinterpret something is when new, related information comes to light through an act of discovery.
    All right, I guess I was seeing this from the perspective of Ne that has never encountered a teddy bear before. It would view it in the context of how it reminds it of the features of live animals and then reach the conclusion that it was similar to those animals it has seen before... or would that be more like Si? Or just plain flat-out Fi?

    Okay, bad examples.

    I'd try to think of better ones but I'm too tired right now.

  5. #15
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    So yeah... your internal perspective is uniquely calibrated, irrespective of the external, I get that. So how is the encounter with the teddy bear not like that? You aren't seeing what most other's see when they see a teddy bear... Or are you saying that what I'm describing is more like Se? Or a thinking function?
    Actually, what you wrote seems accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    All right, I guess I was seeing this from the perspective of Ne that has never encountered a teddy bear before. It would view it in the context of how it reminds it of the features of live animals and then reach the conclusion that it was similar to those animals it has seen before... or would that be more like Si? Or just plain flat-out Fi?
    Remember, perceiving functions don't "reach conclusions".

    Expanding on the Teddy Bear example:

    • Si would scan the bear for small, important details that remind you of past experiences, causing your body to feel as if it was reliving them.
    • Se would just see a small teddy bear with brown fur and almond eyes that reflect the golden light off a nearby lamp. It's wearing a green sleeveless jacket with red intercutting stripes and is soft and fuzzy to the touch.
    • Fi might ask "what universal, emotional needs does this bear help fulfill?"
    • Fe might ask "Who does this bear belong to? why don't they have it with them?"
    • Ti might ask "what tactile variables is this bear made up of? how did they conspire to cause this bear to emerge into existence?"
    • Te might ask "what practical application could this bear be used to fulfill? what application is it already fulfilling, if any?"
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  6. #16
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Remember, perceiving functions don't "reach conclusions".
    I know. My Fi is such a boor, it's always stumbling in and making its presence known. It's hard for me to explain/view/interpret things without using it.

    So how would Ne perceive a teddy bear?

  7. #17
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Ne would see the teddy bear and start generating possibilities by linking it with other things contextually. It might think "that could make a great birthday present for my neice, she could play house with it, or give it a piggy-back ride, or put it in a pram and wheel it around like a baby, or throw it out of a window to make it fly, or even just stab it in the eye with a fork, or let the cat tear it to shreds, or dress it up using her old baby clothes, or run around the house holding on to it with one hand and letting it flap in the breeze behind her. what a wonderful toy full of wonderful possibilities!"

    Ni might say "this bear is obviously meant to appeal to children, especially girls, because it's wrapped in bright pink packaging and has a big smiley face. Who says that even appeals to children? Why are children so drawn to bright pink packaging? Might someone from a different culture find pink packaging to be offensive? In what context would pick packaging be offensive? Why would they even be offended if it were pink? Why not blue? Why would pink be more offensive that green or black? Why can't a child enjoy black packaging? It's all so arbitrary!"
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  8. #18
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Ne would see the teddy bear and start generating possibilities by linking it with other things contextually. It might think "that could make a great birthday present for my neice, she could play house with it, or give it a piggy-back ride, or put it in a pram and wheel it around like a baby, or throw it out of a window to make it fly, or even just stab it in the eye with a fork, or let the cat tear it to shreds, or dress it up using her old baby clothes, or run around the house holding on to it with one hand and letting it flap in the breeze behind her. what a wonderful toy full of wonderful possibilities!"

    Sounds about right.

    I'd also consider merging the teddy bear with other toys to make some weird monster toy. Then I might imagine what monster piggy bank teddy bear would do. Rob banks to fill its adorable gaping maw, perhaps.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    In what context would pick packaging be offensive? Why would they even be offended if it were pink? Why not blue? Why would pink be more offensive that green or black? Why can't a child enjoy black packaging? It's all so arbitrary!"
    Are you sure this isn't Ti?
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  10. #20
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    Are you sure this isn't Ti?
    Ti is just about identifying tactile variables holistically. You might be associating Ni with Ti because you're ISTP.

    (or maybe I just suck at expressing Ni)
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