Ni versus Ne: is one more optimistic / pessimistic?

[lamp]

I am also tempted to associate optimism with idealism and pessimism with realism, so feel free to drag those associations with you when you vote.

Also: courtesy of one of kalach's posts which I am now unable to find, I am tempted to start thinking of Ni as the borg

 

[cascadeco]

I am also tempted to associate optimism with idealism and pessimism with realism, so feel free to drag those associations with you when you vote.

Also: courtesy of one of kalach's posts which I am now unable to find, I am tempted to start thinking of Ni as the borg

lol re the borg.

I don't know that it's easy to contrast Ni/Ne in this sense, as Ne is externally 'seen'/noted, whereas you can't really see Ni in action. You just see the results of what Ni has concluded, or the Ni-user is unable to communicate his ideas well given the nature of the Ni, so the Ni-user appears to be cryptic.

To me, Ne seems optimistic, but I think it is solely due to it being extroverted in nature - i.e. brainstorming, rattling one idea after the next. There's movement there, and movement/fluidity can be tied to optimism. So it's not that Ne is necessarily optimistic, it's the extroverted nature of it that makes it appear to be moreso. Ni, since you can't see it....I mean, I don't know if I'd label it optimistic or pessimistic. Depends on the subject matter I suppose.

 

[Two Point Two]

I don't think there's much of a correlation.

I know my own use of Ni can result in fairly bleak, pessimistic outlooks on things, but it can also be quite uplifting and positive.

I'm not as familiar with Ne, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it wielded both optimistically and pessimistically by friends who prefer it.

I think that in both cases, it depends on one's mood, disposition, and the subject-matter to which it is being applied. An NFP who's facing some stressful future event might use Ne to come up with ways in which it could go wrong, but when the same NFP is dealing with something they find interesting, or something they're enthusiastic about, Ne is used to generate positive possibilities.

 

[FDG]

Ni in INFPs and ENTJs is optimistic.

Ni in INTPs and ENFJs is pessimistic.

(I'm using socionics functional representation here)

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I don't think there's much of a correlation.

I know my own use of Ni can result in fairy cleak, pessimistic outlooks on things, but it can also be quite uplifting and positive.

I'm not as familiar with Ne, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it wielded both optimistically and pessimistically by friends who prefer it.

I think that in both cases, it depends on one's mood, disposition, and the subject-matter to which it is being applied. An NFP who's facing some stressful future event might use Ne to come up with ways in which it could go wrong, but when the same NFP is dealing with something they find interesting, or something they're enthusiastic about, Ne is used to generate positive possibilities.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[teslashock]

I am also tempted to associate optimism with idealism and pessimism with realism, so feel free to drag those associations with you when you vote.

That may just be because you are a pessimistic person. I associate pessimism more with skepticism and optimism more with realism.

As far as Ni vs. Ne though, I'd say that while Ni may not be particularly pessimistic, Ne is definitely very very optimistic. It just generates loads of ideas and is positively inspired by them. It sees possibilities galore, and it takes setbacks as challenges to be conquered and overcome rather than permanent roadblocks.

I'd say that Ni is more grounded and in tune with reality than Ne but in a very profound way. I don't think grounded/realistic equate to pessimistic though.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

I see both the best and the worst of everything at all times. And I'm a total optimist. It just makes sense. Horrible things beyond our control are going to happen anyway, so I try to increase the goodness ratio.

 

[the state i am in]

i think Ni gets bogged down easier, and Ne as an extroverted function is much more adept at adjusting external circumstances and envisioning MATERIAL solutions to potential problems. Ni foresees but has to use an effective judgment function to adequately see why it foresees what it does. to create structure. Fe is not exactly good at this.

intj gets pretty fucking tired of this feeling too, and i think even more so than anything else, it's just that it takes a lot of fucking energy to understand Ni and to turn it into something usable. it's so close-up that it has difficulty seeing how its inner workings relate to the external world in new ways/(that involve starting from scratch). whereas Ne always seems to be from scratch, totally NOW, vs the huge fucking immense bundle of perceptions that Ni carries around with it FOREVER.

intjs is more hierarchically organized so ready to get to work on a problem, its data and its relationships are more practically organized. but infjs is more hazy, fluid, fuzzy, floating/drifting. infj perceptions are so loosely and dreamily associated, indefinite, implicit, foggy and holistic. it takes a lot of context for us to pull the reigns tight and see something clearly, to focus the lens properly so that we see all related parts in perfect resolution. but it's very revealing when it does, sometimes for good and sometimes for bad, depending on how the actual situation fits with our often un-described and indeterminate desires.

Ni is drifting away from the world into an internal metaphysical system. we are trying to grasp relationships and connections based on our own imagination space, our ability to recognize and build/model that breaches the edges of our linguistic tools to make sense. it is our revision or our edition of ourselves. we are so focused as a result on a wider range of information from the past, and sometimes see far less information in the present. this makes us worry, and feel out of touch, and feel threatened by drastic changes that are new to us. bc we feel we need a greater mass of information before we are qualified to move forward (especially inj 5s).

 

[Matthew_Z]

I'd say that optimism/pessimism as it relates to a function come from how the function is used, not the function in and of itself.

 

[Thalassa]

I think Ne is more optimistic. That's how I see it. Maybe it's just sillier.

 

[incubustribute]

Well, that depends. Intuition serves people in many ways, but the question is: is life in general a negative thing or a positive thing? (I'm operating under the assumption that truth is constant and certain regardless of how we perceive things). In the case that our existence is truthfully overall a positive thing and is significant and has meaning, than I believe both Ne and Ni are going to perceive it that way. Si and Se may not because they both look at concreteness or the here-and-now, but I think iNtuition looks deeper and/or more broadly at things to exhaust possibilities and totally explore every facet of life, so inevitably they would reach whatever the most true conclusion is. If our existence is in truth a negative thing that has no meaning (if the nihilists are right, in other words) than I believe Ne and Ni would perceive it to be so. So whether one function is pessimistic or optimistic depends on the truth of the situation.

 

[incubustribute]

i think Ni gets bogged down easier, and Ne as an extroverted function is much more adept at adjusting external circumstances and envisioning MATERIAL solutions to potential problems. Ni foresees but has to use an effective judgment function to adequately see why it foresees what it does. to create structure. Fe is not exactly good at this.

intj gets pretty fucking tired of this feeling too, and i think even more so than anything else, it's just that it takes a lot of fucking energy to understand Ni and to turn it into something usable. it's so close-up that it has difficulty seeing how its inner workings relate to the external world in new ways/(that involve starting from scratch). whereas Ne always seems to be from scratch, totally NOW, vs the huge fucking immense bundle of perceptions that Ni carries around with it FOREVER.

intjs is more hierarchically organized so ready to get to work on a problem, its data and its relationships are more practically organized. but infjs is more hazy, fluid, fuzzy, floating/drifting. infj perceptions are so loosely and dreamily associated, indefinite, implicit, foggy and holistic. it takes a lot of context for us to pull the reigns tight and see something clearly, to focus the lens properly so that we see all related parts in perfect resolution. but it's very revealing when it does, sometimes for good and sometimes for bad, depending on how the actual situation fits with our often un-described and indeterminate desires.

Ni is drifting away from the world into an internal metaphysical system. we are trying to grasp relationships and connections based on our own imagination space, our ability to recognize and build/model that breaches the edges of our linguistic tools to make sense. it is our revision or our edition of ourselves. we are so focused as a result on a wider range of information from the past, and sometimes see far less information in the present. this makes us worry, and feel out of touch, and feel threatened by drastic changes that are new to us. bc we feel we need a greater mass of information before we are qualified to move forward (especially inj 5s).

This is beautifully worded. You've just made my brain bigger

 

[Heart&Brain]

From my experience with other dom-Ns, it seems as if Ni is constantly scanning for any possible tiny thing that could go wrong, while Ne is scanning for any tiny chance that the impossible could be made possible. Ni doesn't want to be unpleasantly surprised and Ne doesn't want to miss any opportunity. In this aspect Ni = pessimist and Ne = optimist. But of course they are both ways of percieving reality in the ways that gives them the most pleasure and the least fear.
And I think that the Aux-function will often counter the inherent dominant optimism or pessimism for all four types. Te will achive visible results for INTJs, Fe will achive social connectivity for INFJs, Fi will beat up ENFPs for not meeting their own ideals and Ti will beat up ENTPs for never being thorough enough. Or something like that. Thus, all four types have each their enthusiastic and depressive potentials, each their temperance of optimistic or pessimistic tendencies.
I guess.

 

[BlueScreen]

I voted "This poll is trash"

 

[Totenkindly]

i think Ni gets bogged down easier, and Ne as an extroverted function is much more adept at adjusting external circumstances and envisioning MATERIAL solutions to potential problems. Ni foresees but has to use an effective judgment function to adequately see why it foresees what it does. to create structure. Fe is not exactly good at this.

That sounds pretty decent as far as an explanation goes.

I tend to see Ni behaving in more cynical ways (it's very easy for it to become an "Everyone has an angle, so how is THIS person trying to play me?" cynicism), Ne tends to me to be more like a plane cargo bay full of ping pong balls dropped into a large walled area where they all bounce all over the place, there's a lot more extroverted energy there and "possibility thinking" to springboard from one thought to the next. it's constantly reaching out for a new thing, rather than trying to recast a situation.

But a flaw of Ne is this -- I've seen stressed ISxJ types who, when in a new situation with no set rules and esp if risk is involved (like losing a job or having to rebuild from a failed relationship), will completely be overwhelmed by lots of fears that actually aren't that realistic, they just got there via a complete Ne explosion/meltdown. In this sense, Ne can be used to trigger fears of bad things on the horizon, although mature Ne seems to be able to weigh out the most sensible intuitions and discard the disasters that aren't as probable based on inherent pattern match.

 

[onemoretime]

I think Ne is more optimistic. That's how I see it. Maybe it's just sillier.

Maybe not pessimistic, but Ne can become very fatalistic when it's highly developed. This happens when it no longer sees possibilities, but is able to judge various probabilities.

Ne-doms can't just sit on the sideline and expect to be happy.

 

[proteanmix]

Extroverted perception functions do seem happier and optimistic to me but not very circumspect.

Introverted perception is a freaking morass. Extroverted judgment is like a machete hacking through the jungle. Things are clear and your path is straight before you, but that can be said of introverted judgment as well.

 

[Totenkindly]

Extroverted judgment is like a machete hacking through the jungle. Things are clear and your path is straight before you, but that can be said of introverted judgment as well.

Using the same analogy, I feel like introverted judgment is more like trying to find the natural path through the vines and slipping through them, back and forth, forth and back... but becoming frustrated because sometimes the spaces are not conducive to getting through even if they are the natural path.

 

[incubustribute]

But a flaw of Ne is this -- I've seen stressed ISxJ types who, when in a new situation with no set rules and esp if risk is involved (like losing a job or having to rebuild from a failed relationship), will completely be overwhelmed by lots of fears that actually aren't that realistic, they just got there via a complete Ne explosion/meltdown. In this sense, Ne can be used to trigger fears of bad things on the horizon, although mature Ne seems to be able to weigh out the most sensible intuitions and discard the disasters that aren't as probable based on inherent pattern match.

This is most certainly what happens to me in those types of situations. Example of the thought process: "oh no, she's not picking up...crap...what the hell...did she get in a car crash...did she leave the country and not tell me...alien abduction...etc, etc, ....?"
Suggestion for ISxJ's (especially us F's) Use the Ji tertiary to balance it out with basic logic and rationality and you're good to go. ISFJ's have the benefit of learned Ti, so if you can access that part of your psyche, it ought to outweigh the inferior Ne.

 

[NewEra]

Only Ns can vote? "This poll is trash".