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  1. #51
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    I would think that's what makes you a J, not an NT. Ni fills up but you don't really have problems with that. Te uses the stuff he needs and will always find the information he needs.

    I'm just comparing with myself. I'm NT too. I don't decide stuff, I learn.

    Right now, I'm imagining the functions as a sort of persons sitting in my head and governing myself.

    Ne is like an enthousiastic know-it-all, always finding out new weird connections, associating like mad, making strange leaps from one topic to a totally unrelated (except for Ne and Ni) topic.

    Ti is the one sifting through the information Ne brings, checking internal consistency and deciding which one I should follow through. But he can't work in peace - every few minutes Ne bothers him. Sometimes my Ti just says yes to a stupid idea to get rid of Ne.

    Totally different from your functions!

    Dominant Ni would also create more connections and ideas than Te can swallow. Only Ni doesn't knock on the door of Te every few minutes. It's the other way around.

    I can see Te as a sort of judge. Once in a while, he calls together a meeting of the functions, deciding on the questions at hand. They are questions the outside world poses. He's the active one, he's the one asking Ni for the information he needs.
    Those are basically the archetypes (which are complexes within the ego) you are describing.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Here's some other names I came up with after reading about various forms of temperament:

    IxxP - the Resolute
    Internal judging capabilities feed the Ti/Fi user's unwavering sense of right and wrong or true and false. Both functions are concerned primarily with the manifestation of decisive, steadfast values, whether these lie in the rocky terrain of moral judgments or the x/y plane of rational truths.

    IxxJ - the Analyst
    The ability to store information and infer possibilities is something Ni shares with Si. They both have a need to recall their observations to make inferences on what they should do or what is possible as an outcome to a situation.

    ExxJ - the Exhorter
    Te and Fe share the need of external validation for their judgments, but they also have in common the ability to move people, whether by thoughtful organization, dogmatic command, or emotional pull.

    ExxP - the Improviser
    Ne and Se both desperately rely on their experiential perceptions of reality to form any kind of judgment. Most often though, they find themselves way too involved with their experiments to be overly dependent on any kind of restrictive rules or judged boundaries.

    I tried to be more thoughtful and considerate of the actual type descriptions when I did these, because the last batch was not without its defects. Hopefully these better epitomize the ideas I'm developing.

  3. #53
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I just like to use the ancient temperament names, since they are not as susceptible to mistunderstanding as names based on common modern words:

    I call them "proto-" because they are the first letters that develop, and most of them will grow into these temperaments, but some won't, depending on the other letters that develop:

    IP: proto-Phlegmatic

    IJ: proto-Melancholy

    EP: proto-Sanguine

    EJ: proto-Choleric

    SFJs will start out as EJs or IJs, but once the S and F develop, their Interaction Style will become Sanguine or Phlegmatic and not Choleric or Melancholic. STPs will start out as EPs or IPs, but once the S and T develop, their style will become Choleric or Melancholic instead of Sanguine or Phlegmatic. (They both will be Sanguine in the Keirseyan temperament, however).
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  4. #54
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I call them "proto-" because they are the first letters that develop, and most of them will grow into these temperaments, but some won't, depending on the other letters that develop:
    This may be slightly off-topic, but could you expand on this a bit? I'd be particularly interested to hear how someone going from Mel-chol to Phleg-mel would fit into this dynamic and explain their Type.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  5. #55
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Well, Mel-Chol (usually spelled "Mel Chlor") would be INTJ, and Phleg-Mel would be ISFJ. (No one would go from one type to the other). They both are IJ's, and thus start out as "proto-Melancholy", and the INTJ will stay Melancholy (Chart the Course), but when the ISFJ's two middle letters develop, it will be Behind the Scenes, which is Phlegmatic. However, it too will still be part Melancholy by virtue of the SJ.
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  6. #56
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, Mel-Chol (usually spelled "Mel Chlor") would be INTJ, and Phleg-Mel would be ISFJ. (No one would go from one type to the other). They both are IJ's, and thus start out as "proto-Melancholy", and the INTJ will stay Melancholy (Chart the Course), but when the ISFJ's two middle letters develop, it will be Behind the Scenes, which is Phlegmatic. However, it too will still be part Melancholy by virtue of the SJ.
    So what you're saying is that there's a perfect correspondence between the MBTI and the four humours. This is strange to me, because I'm quite certain I wasn't an INTJ in high school (the idea is laughable) and I'm even more certain I'm not an ISFJ right now. On the other hand, I may in fact be a Mel-phleg--I'm very close on the two--and this would be more consistent with someone who started out as a Mel-chlor, wouldn't it?
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  7. #57
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Wait, what are you saying? that you started out as a Mel-Chlor, and arew now a Mel-Phleg. Temperament is believed to be inborn, but just like type or any system, taking tests at different times, or even different tests can yield different results. If you're really INFP, then you're likely pure Phlegmatic, and Melancholy might simply be the next strongest temperament. A lot of people can have a three way blend of temperaments, so you might also be Phlegmatic-Phlegmatic-Melancholy, with only the first two corresponding to your type. But INFJ would be Mel-Phleg, and isn't that one of the other types you said might work for you? It's funny that as per our previous discussion, INTJ is another one that was mentioned, and that would fit Mel-Chlor.

    So the ambiguity you face with humor temperament combination basically parallels the same ambiguity you are having with type. I didn't say "perfect" correspondence, but from what I have seen so far (both conceptually, by comparison to the Keirsey-Berens temperament/Interaction Styles model; and empirically by comparing people's type to their humor test results), it seems pretty good.
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  8. #58
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B
    I didn't say "perfect" correspondence, but from what I have seen so far (both conceptually, by comparison to the Keirsey-Berens temperament/Interaction Styles model; and empirically by comparing people's type to their humor test results), it seems pretty good.
    I do remember that all of the people in my class who scored as Phlegmatic were IN_P and ISFJ, so I'm prepared to believe that there's a good correspondence.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #59
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubustribute View Post
    Here's some other names I came up with after reading about various forms of temperament:

    IxxP - the Resolute
    Internal judging capabilities feed the Ti/Fi user's unwavering sense of right and wrong or true and false. Both functions are concerned primarily with the manifestation of decisive, steadfast values, whether these lie in the rocky terrain of moral judgments or the x/y plane of rational truths.
    Unwavering?

    IxxJ - the Analyst
    The ability to store information and infer possibilities is something Ni shares with Si. They both have a need to recall their observations to make inferences on what they should do or what is possible as an outcome to a situation.
    They do? Sounds like IP.

    (I don't relate to recalling observations. Swimming in Ni does not feel like recalling the past. Ni actually tends to be used as if current understanding can always be escaped.)

    ExxJ - the Exhorter
    Te and Fe share the need of external validation for their judgments, but they also have in common the ability to move people, whether by thoughtful organization, dogmatic command, or emotional pull.
    So not true. Te moves people? In a literal physical sense perhaps. Technically, if Te doms are exhorting, it would be them yelling at machines and processes.

    ExxP - the Improviser
    Ne and Se both desperately rely on their experiential perceptions of reality to form any kind of judgment. Most often though, they find themselves way too involved with their experiments to be overly dependent on any kind of restrictive rules or judged boundaries.
    Dunno what that means, but it could well be true.
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  10. #60
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    I can see Te as a sort of judge. Once in a while, he calls together a meeting of the functions, deciding on the questions at hand. They are questions the outside world poses. He's the active one, he's the one asking Ni for the information he needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Sounds like ENTJ.
    Of course. Both E- and INTJ have the same first two functions. To me the difference seems like:
    For an INTJ, when Te calls Ni for information, the information is already there. Ni has more information than Te will ever need.
    For an ENTJ, Te is even more active and calls for more information poor Ni can provide. So Te will search elsewhere - in the outside world, for example.

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