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Imagination and N/S

Quinlan

Intriguing....
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No I don't agree, N deals with not-well-defined information, it can't be data; the opposite is valid for T. At least...in the model I use.

Why not? Data is data whether it is well defined or not isn't it?

To me N and S draw in data (well defined or not) and it is T and F that processes the data (defines it, gives it meaning, decides what to do with it etc.).

Data is passive (it just is) and evaluation is active (makes a statement about what is).

Perception (N and S) is passive (it just is) and Judgement (T and F) is active (makes a statement about something).

Therefore to me imagination is simply the internal combination of a judging and a percieving process/es. Perception providing the matierials and judgement constructing the internal world or concept.

I wonder if that makes any sense.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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I think that he means it's more of a realism vs non realism thing. S and T are realistic, N and F are non realistic.
Sorry but that's not right. N is realistic, it's just not specific.
F is realistic, it's just not impersonal.
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
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Sorry but that's not right. N is realistic, it's just not specific.
F is realistic, it's just not impersonal.

Why not? Data is data whether it is well defined or not isn't it?

To me N and S draw in data (well defined or not) and it is T and F that processes the data (defines it, gives it meaning, decides what to do with it etc.).
How would yall define an "NF" daydream versus an "ST" daydream?
I guess I just don't get the real difference between S and N in this regard.
I'd say most of my dreams and daydreams are realistic. They're sometimes exaggerations of reality, but they are usually based fully in what I understand to be real. Can someone give some examples?
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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How would yall define an "NF" daydream versus an "ST" daydream?
I guess I just don't get the real difference between S and N in this regard.
I'd say most of my dreams and daydreams are realistic. They're sometimes exaggerations of reality, but they are usually based fully in what I understand to be real. Can someone give some examples?
Wouldn't a daydream involve the subconscious in part and therefore NF and ST would be closer than they are when dealing with "real" situations?

My ENFP friend can become very specific in his daydreams and the ISTJ I know can oft go into flights of fantasy which would be more about his own inner desires than anything you might call concrete.

Oh and general note :-
N&S gather data. They are not the data itself. If you really want to blur the lines, T&F give data too in terms of responses to stimuli.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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Sorry but that's not right. N is realistic, it's just not specific.
F is realistic, it's just not impersonal.

Well you know what I'm trying to get at...
 

Xander

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Well you know what I'm trying to get at...
Slightly, yes but I hold some intuitive reservations that you may be straying into thinking the types are exclusive and not inclusive.
 

King sns

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I see what the OP is getting at.
I would say that N definitely has a tendency to be more imaginitive. (and of course i'm not saying "all N's are more imaginitive than S's and S's are stupid") and I don't think this is what the OP is trying to say, either.

I think that S's just tend to view the world as they physically see it. Gathering facts and data from all the sensory information that they've recieved. That's a basic fact but it allows for less room for imagination and almost less of a belief in using imagination. (I think so. I personally tend to trust hard facts that have been observed over everything else.)

N's don't see the world in as much detail. They see it in connections and generalizations. This allows for much more room for imagination to connect dots and less thorough detailed sensory information, bringing them a more skilled ability to bring themselves away from reality and onto the unknown and creative.

Don't you think?
 

BlackCat

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Slightly, yes but I hold some intuitive reservations that you may be straying into thinking the types are exclusive and not inclusive.

No, not at all.
 

Xander

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N's don't see the world in as much detail. They see it in connections and generalizations. This allows for much more room for imagination to connect dots and less thorough detailed sensory information, bringing them a more skilled ability to bring themselves away from reality and onto the unknown and creative.

Don't you think?
Nope. It's the details I get lost in. All that interconnected information.....:shock:
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
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Ti is a pretty detailed function...I'd say it rivals Si in that sense. They seem almost related.
 

BlackCat

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Ti is a pretty detailed function...I'd say it rivals Si in that sense. They seem almost related.

IMO Si is detailed, Ti is thorough. Ti is thorough in it's logistical systems, and I'd say Si is just detailed about everything. If you analyze it too closely it can look very similar. But you've gotta realize that Si is comfortable with what "is," right now, and that these things won't change (perception). Ti is just concerned with everything that they see fitting into their logistical systems (judgment).
 

compulsiverambler

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T is also data btw, not just S. S and T are data, N and F are "imagination".
If you don't know how others feel about something (Fe), and you're not consciously aware of how you yourself have reacted emotionally to something (Fi), you lack data. Emotions aren't imaginary.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
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IMO Si is detailed, Ti is thorough. Ti is thorough in it's logistical systems, and I'd say Si is just detailed about everything. If you analyze it too closely it can look very similar. But you've gotta realize that Si is comfortable with what "is," right now, and that these things won't change (perception). Ti is just concerned with everything that they see fitting into their logistical systems (judgment).

I know what perception and judgment are, but Ti is detailed in that it picks up the minutia. Not even looking at them closely, but in general Ti dominants have that critical eye that rarely misses anything.
 
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