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  1. #21
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No I don't agree, N deals with not-well-defined information, it can't be data; the opposite is valid for T. At least...in the model I use.
    Why not? Data is data whether it is well defined or not isn't it?

    To me N and S draw in data (well defined or not) and it is T and F that processes the data (defines it, gives it meaning, decides what to do with it etc.).

    Data is passive (it just is) and evaluation is active (makes a statement about what is).

    Perception (N and S) is passive (it just is) and Judgement (T and F) is active (makes a statement about something).

    Therefore to me imagination is simply the internal combination of a judging and a percieving process/es. Perception providing the matierials and judgement constructing the internal world or concept.

    I wonder if that makes any sense.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  2. #22
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I think that he means it's more of a realism vs non realism thing. S and T are realistic, N and F are non realistic.
    Sorry but that's not right. N is realistic, it's just not specific.
    F is realistic, it's just not impersonal.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #23
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Sorry but that's not right. N is realistic, it's just not specific.
    F is realistic, it's just not impersonal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Why not? Data is data whether it is well defined or not isn't it?

    To me N and S draw in data (well defined or not) and it is T and F that processes the data (defines it, gives it meaning, decides what to do with it etc.).
    How would yall define an "NF" daydream versus an "ST" daydream?
    I guess I just don't get the real difference between S and N in this regard.
    I'd say most of my dreams and daydreams are realistic. They're sometimes exaggerations of reality, but they are usually based fully in what I understand to be real. Can someone give some examples?
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  4. #24
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    How would yall define an "NF" daydream versus an "ST" daydream?
    I guess I just don't get the real difference between S and N in this regard.
    I'd say most of my dreams and daydreams are realistic. They're sometimes exaggerations of reality, but they are usually based fully in what I understand to be real. Can someone give some examples?
    Wouldn't a daydream involve the subconscious in part and therefore NF and ST would be closer than they are when dealing with "real" situations?

    My ENFP friend can become very specific in his daydreams and the ISTJ I know can oft go into flights of fantasy which would be more about his own inner desires than anything you might call concrete.

    Oh and general note :-
    N&S gather data. They are not the data itself. If you really want to blur the lines, T&F give data too in terms of responses to stimuli.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #25
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Sorry but that's not right. N is realistic, it's just not specific.
    F is realistic, it's just not impersonal.
    Well you know what I'm trying to get at...
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #26
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Well you know what I'm trying to get at...
    Slightly, yes but I hold some intuitive reservations that you may be straying into thinking the types are exclusive and not inclusive.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #27
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I see what the OP is getting at.
    I would say that N definitely has a tendency to be more imaginitive. (and of course i'm not saying "all N's are more imaginitive than S's and S's are stupid") and I don't think this is what the OP is trying to say, either.

    I think that S's just tend to view the world as they physically see it. Gathering facts and data from all the sensory information that they've recieved. That's a basic fact but it allows for less room for imagination and almost less of a belief in using imagination. (I think so. I personally tend to trust hard facts that have been observed over everything else.)

    N's don't see the world in as much detail. They see it in connections and generalizations. This allows for much more room for imagination to connect dots and less thorough detailed sensory information, bringing them a more skilled ability to bring themselves away from reality and onto the unknown and creative.

    Don't you think?

  8. #28
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Slightly, yes but I hold some intuitive reservations that you may be straying into thinking the types are exclusive and not inclusive.
    No, not at all.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #29
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    N's don't see the world in as much detail. They see it in connections and generalizations. This allows for much more room for imagination to connect dots and less thorough detailed sensory information, bringing them a more skilled ability to bring themselves away from reality and onto the unknown and creative.

    Don't you think?
    Nope. It's the details I get lost in. All that interconnected information.....
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #30
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Ti is a pretty detailed function...I'd say it rivals Si in that sense. They seem almost related.

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