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  1. #1
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Default The "divide" is Pe and Pi, not N or S

    The following is an almost symmetrical schematic that I hope clearly explains both verbally and non-verbally that I feel Si and Ni are more related than Ne and Ni. This may sound like blashphemy to those who feel "only N's ever understand me!" However, after reading through functions and trying to realize what the essential elements of difference were:

    its data, and how that data is twisted (or not twisted). In this sense, Si and Ni seem to be more of the same genus than Se and Si do. The difference within regards how that data is twisted (or not twisted). Read on for a sort of schematic:


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pi<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Si <----Pi----> Ni
    --------------->
    trade off concrete, chronological ordering only for less chronological "forward guessing"/liquid application of data.
    <-------------
    trade off forward application for more concrete and chronological cataloging

    Ni is more dynamic and is almost like "more free flowing/ambitious" Si (ambitious =! the success sense)
    Si is more static and is almost like "down to earth/conservative" Ni (conservative =! the political sense)
    Both are based on "what you know" (you're the focus point) (this point i admittedly got from another member)



    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Se <----Pe---> Ne
    --------------------->
    trade off concrete vision for pattern extrapolation within recognizable "limits"
    <-------------------
    trade off pattern extrapolation within recognizable "limits" for more concrete vision of the world

    Ne is more dynamic and is almost like "unrestrained" Se
    Se is more static and is more like "restrained" Ne
    Both are based on "what you see" (the environment is the focus point) (this point i admittedly got from another member)

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <

    Questions, comments or critiques???

  2. #2
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    hahaha, you said Pee in the thread title
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Default

    Si -----------Ni
    I..................I
    I..................I
    I..................I
    I..................I
    Se-----------Ne

    Left is concrete/pragmatic, right is abstract/dynamic.

    Up is inward-focused, down is outward-focused.

    Why prioritise distinction on one dimension over the other? Pi-people will relate to the Pi-ity of Pi- people; Ns will relate to the N-ness of Ns, and etc.

    Based on your description, it seems that both forms of N trade off something concrete for something more dynamic, and both Ss trade off something more dynamic for something more concrete, so there's a commonality there, too. Whether you relate better to someone with the same Pi/Pe or the same N/S as you in a given instance may depend on what you're trying to express.

    Edit: It may also depend on strength of preference-aspect. I mean, I may prefer Ni, but be more inward focused than I am N, and so what I do is high on the square and a little to the right, while another Ni-dom might be more strongly N but not so strongly inward-focused, and they would be far to the right and not quite as high up. These two different Ni-doms may vary with respect to whether Si or Ne is a more relatable perspective.

  4. #4

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    I believe the Jung one actually splits it more at E/I also. With extraverted functions focussed more on the objective data at hand, and introverted more on what it can subjectively interpret from it. ie. introverted involves internal factors and interpretation more in the perception/judgement.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  5. #5
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    I am in complete agreement with this.

  6. #6
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pi<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Si <----Pi----> Ni
    --------------->
    trade off concrete, chronological ordering only for less chronological "forward guessing"/liquid application of data.
    <-------------
    trade off forward application for more concrete and chronological cataloging

    Ni is more dynamic and is almost like "more free flowing/ambitious" Si (ambitious =! the success sense)
    Si is more static and is almost like "down to earth/conservative" Ni (conservative =! the political sense)
    Both are based on "what you know" (you're the focus point) (this point i admittedly got from another member)
    This sounds a lot like what I was thinking recently. Both processes relate to inner perception and how it shapes the data you take in, but whereas Si needs stability in its perception, Ni will draw connections between various Si-like perceptions, allowing it to transform its vision at a constant rate. This resembles the kind of relationship between Ne and Se, in that Ne seems to draw links between perceptions that are by themselves physical and concrete.

    So actually, Ne has as much in common with Ni (both connective) as it does with Se (they're external). The same can be said of Si in respect to Ni and Se: these are all separations of one dimension only; you can cut them either way and get an equally strong divide. This contrasts with what happens if you take two P-functions that share no letters in common: you end up with a separation of two dimensions, which is the strongest kind possible within this context. So long story short, I would have to disagree with the thread title: N and S are just as strongly divided as Pe and Pi.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  7. #7
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Si -----------Ni
    I..................I
    I..................I
    I..................I
    I..................I
    Se-----------Ne

    Left is concrete/pragmatic, right is abstract/dynamic.

    Up is inward-focused, down is outward-focused.

    Why prioritise distinction on one dimension over the other? Pi-people will relate to the Pi-ity of Pi- people; Ns will relate to the N-ness of Ns, and etc.

    Based on your description, it seems that both forms of N trade off something concrete for something more dynamic, and both Ss trade off something more dynamic for something more concrete, so there's a commonality there, too. Whether you relate better to someone with the same Pi/Pe or the same N/S as you in a given instance may depend on what you're trying to express.

    Edit: It may also depend on strength of preference-aspect. I mean, I may prefer Ni, but be more inward focused than I am N, and so what I do is high on the square and a little to the right, while another Ni-dom might be more strongly N but not so strongly inward-focused, and they would be far to the right and not quite as high up. These two different Ni-doms may vary with respect to whether Si or Ne is a more relatable perspective.
    I completely agree. Neither of the two dimensions is always more significant than the other in my experience. I have friends who are extremely Pe-focused and have no discernible preference between Ne and Se, and I know people who have preference for both forms of N over either form of S and vice versa. Pes without much N/S preference get on most easily with any kind of Pe and the non-specific Ns and Ss get on better with any kind of N or S.

  8. #8
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Si -----------Ni
    I..................I
    I..................I
    I..................I
    I..................I
    Se-----------Ne

    Left is concrete/pragmatic, right is abstract/dynamic.

    Up is inward-focused, down is outward-focused.

    Why prioritise distinction on one dimension over the other? Pi-people will relate to the Pi-ity of Pi- people; Ns will relate to the N-ness of Ns, and etc.

    Based on your description, it seems that both forms of N trade off something concrete for something more dynamic, and both Ss trade off something more dynamic for something more concrete, so there's a commonality there, too. Whether you relate better to someone with the same Pi/Pe or the same N/S as you in a given instance may depend on what you're trying to express.

    Edit: It may also depend on strength of preference-aspect. I mean, I may prefer Ni, but be more inward focused than I am N, and so what I do is high on the square and a little to the right, while another Ni-dom might be more strongly N but not so strongly inward-focused, and they would be far to the right and not quite as high up. These two different Ni-doms may vary with respect to whether Si or Ne is a more relatable perspective.
    Yeah, I agree with this. Si is a different animal from Ni, Se, and Ne. Same for all of them, and like you said, a lot of it has to do with strength of preference. It's not so cut and dry.

  9. #9
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    hahaha, you said Pee in the thread title
    hehhehe.

    PEE.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Yloh's Avatar
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    Default

    Interesting, I now wonder if there is a similar issue with Je and Ji.

    Anyways, what you wrote makes sense to me. A lot of people think J/P is the most important letter in terms of relationship issues while others think S/N is the most important.

    Thinking on those lines it would make since for the Ni to be able to connect to both the Ne and Si. Both Ne and Si have something similar to Ni, so they can respect each other. Ni and Se, however, are VERY different and can have some conflicts. Unless the Ni and Se are both trying to get to the exact same goal, I could see it being much more difficult for them to get along.

    I wonder if NPs feel most bothered by SJs and the other way around. Do SPs feel most bothered by NJs and the other way around?

    I will admit SPs can get on my nerves more than any other type by how they approach life. I just feel they are too lazy and they get confused by how I look at things. Never the less, I do appreciate them very much, and I learn a lot from them.

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