Typewatching via eye movements

[sculpting]

So in Neurolinguistic programming there is a theory that different eye movements correspond to different types of information retrieval-verbal, visual or Kinesthetic, either imagined or remembered.

Here is a site that talks about it in more depth:
NLP Eye Accessing Cues

After I started paying attention to this I realized that the Jungian cognitive functions seem to match very closely and repeatedly to eye movements.

Ne-(NLP visual retrieval)-upwards at angles

Ti-Very direct, piercing, observing, even staring albeit the INTPs are a little spacier in their stares.

Fi-(NLP kinesthetic)-downward glances, little direct eye contact

Fe-in terts like EXTPs, they do lots of side glances-verbal retrieval
Fe-in doms and auxs, they seem to do a lot of softly directing looks paired with soft controlled smiles, and some side glancing

Ni-drooling, not really in the room with the rest of us. Some Ni doms will actually have whole conversations with you while they stare off into space.

Te-dominating, almost glare like. My enfps will actually pair this with a crinkled brow. INTJs will alternate the Ni drool look with the very direct Te glare. It isnt just studying-like Ti-it is almost confrontational.

Se and Si-I dont quite have a fix on these two yet. Most of my Si users use Te looks and most of my Se users use Fe or Te looks.

Anyways this is all I use anymore to type people. It is always right so far. More so than anything else-clothing, speech, face or whatever. But the dynamic aspect seems important-you have to watch the fluctuations between looks while they talk.

Typically the eyes will alternate between two different types of looks-Ne, Fi or Ne, Te for me, but sometimes combining into NeFi as a combination. In the second post I will put my pics trying to illustrate this for me.

Can you guys help me confirm or deny? Can you watch a couple of folks around you and see if this seems true?

 

[Max]

A lot of people I know say that I tend to look at them in a very condescending way, like, with my neck angled down. It's understandable because I'm reasonably tall at 6'0", but I do it sometimes even to those taller than me. Though it isn't my eyes specifically, it does seem to correlate with what you said about Te users.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

So in Neurolinguistic programming there is a theory that different eye movements correspond to different types of information retrieval-verbal, visual or Kinesthetic, either imagined or remembered.

Here is a site that talks about it in more depth:
NLP Eye Accessing Cues

After I started paying attention to this I realized that the Jungian cognitive functions seem to match very closely and repeatedly to eye movements.

Ne-(NLP visual retrieval)-upwards at angles

Ti-Very direct, piercing, observing, even staring albeit the INTPs are a little spacier in their stares.

Fi-(NLP kinesthetic)-downward glances, little direct eye contact

Fe-in terts like EXTPs, they do lots of side glances-verbal retrieval
Fe-in doms and auxs, they seem to do a lot of softly directing looks paired with soft controlled smiles, and some side glancing

Ni-drooling, not really in the room with the rest of us. Some Ni doms will actually have whole conversations with you while they stare off into space.

Te-dominating, almost glare like. My enfps will actually pair this with a crinkled brow. INTJs will alternate the Ni drool look with the very direct Te glare. It isnt just studying-like Ti-it is almost confrontational.

Se and Si-I dont quite have a fix on these two yet. Most of my Si users use Te looks and most of my Se users use Fe or Te looks.

Anyways this is all I use anymore to type people. It is always right so far. More so than anything else-clothing, speech, face or whatever. But the dynamic aspect seems important-you have to watch the fluctuations between looks while they talk.

Typically the eyes will alternate between two different types of looks-Ne, Fi or Ne, Te for me, but sometimes combining into NeFi as a combination. In the second post I will put my pics trying to illustrate this for me.

Can you guys help me confirm or deny? Can you watch a couple of folks around you and see if this seems true?

seemingly nonsensical.

explain how you type people based on their eye movements AND verify, independently of your own perspective, that you've correctly typed them.

 

[sculpting]

seemingly nonsensical.

explain how you type people based on their eye movements AND verify, independently of your own perspective, that you've correctly typed them.

:steam: (the toddler requested emoticons be included in this post. He is of the opinion that the singing mexican hat guy is crying)

you type the functions first.

Here are some examples. Some have been supported by them actually taking the test. All others are agreed on by my ENTP friend and myself. We fight endlessly until we do agree. She always identifies ENFPs before me. I identify everything else before her. But we eventually agree. All make sense in the context of thier eventual behaviors and career choices.

Example1:
For instance, a recent male hire-38 years old. I start talking to him and notice many upwards glancing eye movements. Anytime he has to stop and think he looks up at angles.

So Ne. in other words an ENTP or an ENFP.

Next I look for Ti or Fi. In this case I see lots of downward glances mixed with smiles and upward angles. Thus NeFi. To back this up I see very direct Te looks here and there as he tries to make logical points. So ENFP it is. Strategic marketing background. We are planning to build a moat out back to float our mother effin boats in.

Example 2:
For another person as he talks I watch the same upward eye movements and pauses in conversation as he thinks-Ne. However he never, ever looks down. Instead he looks very directly at my eyes-Ti. Not glaring, rather piercing. He watches everything I do. This is NeTi. He will also look to the left and right at various points in the convo,especially when he is conflicted about a social decision. just with his eyes not his whole head-Fe. This NeTiFe-ENTP. (I cant force myself to look left and right with my eyes. It is almost impossible) A pHD scientist studying gene expression

Example 3:
One of my long time coworkers will stare off into space at times after you ask her questions. Ni. Then she responds in a very rude, direct forceful manner, crinkles her brow and glares at you. NiTe. But every so often I make her smile-when I do her eyes get very soft and she breaks eye contact and looks down-Fi. Thus NiTeFi-INTJ. A MS scientist studying cell biology who every thinks will bring a gun to work to kill them.

Example 4:
My CEO was hard to figure out-he actually wears a very direct glare much of the time-Te. However he is sort of socially ackward and introverted. I had to come here and ask the INTJs-what is going on when they close their eyes-as during meetings he would close his eyes and gesture in front of his face with his hands in a very solid purposeful way-Ni followed by Te. Once I did catch his eye and get a glimpse of Fi. Around his family I see the Fi looks more. NiTeFi. INTJ History of Marketing.


Example 5:
One of my guys is fairly introverted but responds with very direct glares and crinkled brows to questions or discussions-Te. But when I make him laugh or when he talks about his emo girlfriend he looks down-Fi. This one is tricky becuase I never see the Ni off in space stare. I already know he is an ISTJ-He is the director of quality assurance. So I am left not quite sure how to judge Si.

Example 6:
This guy gives me very direct stares as we speak-he never stops staring-Ti. But in the middle of the conversation he will very often look side to side-Fe. He NEVER looks up. Thus no Ne. TiFe with no Ne is an ESTP. He is in sales and is the biggest ESTP you will ever see. Very sleazy vibes excreted.

Example 7:
This guy is my boss. Very direct stares, no upwards looks ever. Some Fe side to side. ESTP. fifteen years history in sales. Very Se in the moment behavior and thoughts. But what does Se look like?

Example 8:
Another sales guy. This guys gives me very direct stares-Ti. Never looks up thus no Ne. Some Fe sideways glancing. However ever so often, he will sort of look off to the side and make a very insightful statement-Ni??? He is an old ESTP, so I wonder if inferior Ni is peeking through. A very good sales guy

Example 9:
A young guy who looks very directly at me alternated with upward glances. NeTi. no Fe glances noticed. A rude as shit young ENTP. Clever, clever, clever. He slef confirms as an ENTP and told me a year or two ago I was full of shit about the MBTI letters. However he said in the last year-since I discovered the functions-now the things I say sound correct. punk.

Example 10 and 11:
We'll combine these two. Man and Woman, both will glare and stare through your soul and burn holes in your pancreas. Te methinks? Here things breakdown as both are ENTJs but I they got fired so I cant go back and look for Ni or whatever Si might look like. A former army general and the meanest project manager on earth. But both were awesome.

Example 12:
A woman who glares painfully at others in meetings-Te. However she gets stuck on details and dresses very girly. An ESTJ, but I am uncertain as to how to see visually. A project manager but disliked due to being harpy-like.

Example 13:
This one is very interesting. An ISTJ self proclaimed many times over. She will give very direct, glaring eye movements when using Te. However she can be very petulant, whiny, moany and "poor me" at times. When she is doing this he eyes will make very pronounced downward glances. Very exaggerated. She never looks upwards at all. She is an example of an ISTJ who overuses Fi. She has a long history of getting into relationships where guys think she is very sweet and passive, only to revert to ISTJ behavior-her true self- and have them dump her. Data analytics and data base mining.


New puzzle:
My boss' boss' boss. Very direct eye movements when giving speeches-Te. However some downward glances intermixed throughout-Fi? Not noticing Ne upwards glancing. No off in space Ni glances or closed eyes either. In the hallways it is very odd as I never "see" his eyes. Like an INFP-he doesnt make eye contact. He does very brief glances, then looks away. However I wouldn't expect such Te directness, although maybe it is Si practicality? When he smiles his eyes wrinkle noticable indicating a real smile-Fi.

I think FiTe but still collecting data.

Do you see how this is working?

 

[BlackCat]

Se eyes look focused, Si eyes look seasoned.

 

[wolfy]

Se=Terminator eyes...maybe. That is a really interesting concept and makes a lot of sense.

 

[Snuggletron]

nay sir, Ni eyes look like this

 

[paintmuffin]

This definitely doesn't apply to me... I physically control my eye movements at all times because I feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable making eye contact with people.

So half the time I get the Ni "drool" and half the time my eyes are darting around avoiding other people.

Also, my eye muscles get sore sometimes and I have to stretch them by making weird facial expressions.

Yeah, it's awkward.

 

[Lady_X]

So in Neurolinguistic programming there is a theory that different eye movements correspond to different types of information retrieval-verbal, visual or Kinesthetic, either imagined or remembered.

Here is a site that talks about it in more depth:
NLP Eye Accessing Cues

After I started paying attention to this I realized that the Jungian cognitive functions seem to match very closely and repeatedly to eye movements.

Ne-(NLP visual retrieval)-upwards at angles

Ti-Very direct, piercing, observing, even staring albeit the INTPs are a little spacier in their stares.

Fi-(NLP kinesthetic)-downward glances, little direct eye contact

Fe-in terts like EXTPs, they do lots of side glances-verbal retrieval
Fe-in doms and auxs, they seem to do a lot of softly directing looks paired with soft controlled smiles, and some side glancing

Ni-drooling, not really in the room with the rest of us. Some Ni doms will actually have whole conversations with you while they stare off into space.

Te-dominating, almost glare like. My enfps will actually pair this with a crinkled brow. INTJs will alternate the Ni drool look with the very direct Te glare. It isnt just studying-like Ti-it is almost confrontational.

Se and Si-I dont quite have a fix on these two yet. Most of my Si users use Te looks and most of my Se users use Fe or Te looks.

Anyways this is all I use anymore to type people. It is always right so far. More so than anything else-clothing, speech, face or whatever. But the dynamic aspect seems important-you have to watch the fluctuations between looks while they talk.

Typically the eyes will alternate between two different types of looks-Ne, Fi or Ne, Te for me, but sometimes combining into NeFi as a combination. In the second post I will put my pics trying to illustrate this for me.

Can you guys help me confirm or deny? Can you watch a couple of folks around you and see if this seems true?

that's a trip! because i just put myself in the frame of mind where i might try to figure something out and i think those looks may correspond with the functions used at the time...that's kinda crazy! like...thinking of ideas...or...tying things together to come up with a course of action or whatever...it's upward side glances or...figuring out where i stand on something...what's important...what's right...it might be downward side...what a bloody trip!

 

[Lady_X]

oooh...just read that. that's interesting ne monster.

 

[Queen Kat]

I usually look directly in someones eyes (and nothing else, I wouldn't even notice if someone was naked, except if they had grow eyes on their genitals, but that only happens very rarely). Sometimes I stare in the distance, mostly when I'm thinking. I find it really tiresome when someone always looks into my eyes as well. Two weeks ago I had to go to the bank, and there was this woman who I had to talk to to change my bank account. But that woman was looking in my eyes as well and so, after talking to her for fifteen minutes, my eyes started to hurt. I hope I'll never meet my lost twin.

 

[Spamtar]

I used to study NLP Eye Accessing Cues but I was able to play this game called love/hate. After determining a general status of eye positioning/visual clues on where the eyes categories different times/values etc.. was able to get about 90 percent correct when I asked a person whether they hated or loved a person (I think it was closer to 95 percent because I had to trust the answerer of the test to tell me the objective truth afterwards (I noticed a lot of people who claimed to hate their fathers eye cues showed the opposite.

Thus if eye cues have a tendency to show different MBTI types, not only is that helpful in itself but also incongruence with their eye positioning could give other clues (i.e. lying detecting). For example watching Mackenzie Phillips interview with her talking about her father (of the band The Mamas and the Papas raping her and having a long term incestuous relationship; based on her eye positioning incongruence, it told me she was lying.

 

[Totenkindly]

I have to say, I'm a little dubious on the "eye-movement" stuff.

Eye-movements are useful in detecting falsehood, true... but only if you have a baseline to start with, and as a single cue they're pretty fallible.

The problem is that eyes MOVE.
All the time.
For many many varied reasons.

About the only thing I can think of in terms of a "type-related" thing I've had outside validation on (i.e., I recognize I do it and never said anything, and independently a lot of other people have brought it up with me) is when I go into one of my "seeing into another reality" stares... where I would be staring at someone in a conversation and they would get a little freaked out because they felt I was staring through them, or staring at them but seeing something else.

(I do that when playing piano and improvising, it's like dropping into a trance mode; I'd stare at someone in front of me who was watching, and they'd get unnerved. i wasn't really seeing them, I was "seeing the cloud of music" if that makes any sense.)

But I still don't know if I could even pin that down as a particular type, it probably covers a range of various functions or function combos.

 

[Spamtar]

When studying someone’s eye accessing cues, it does help if there is not too much distraction and even more helpful when the subject get in a trance or semi trancelike state.

Also like to get your pattern down on how you think about things from the past present and future. What are your core values your thoughts as far as your abilities and your deservingness and ultimate desires. For me, regardless of this fact the eyes move around naturally a person nevertheless soon is able to notice a pattern when they train themselves to watch.

The pattern is the status or home base, in other words its the combination of movements into a pattern not a fixed look where it helps one type a person. However in the NLP realm usually the types are based on their learning styles i.e. Visual Auditory and Kinetic (VAK) see Learning styles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the first time have heard the correlation/ typewatching to MBTI but what I hear above runs mostly true to myself.

As an INTP and recently watched a video of myself giving a semi impromptu speech public; the following was noticed: think there is a tendency on my type to avoid direct eye contact for very long; tend to look upward in a V shaped pattern (different types of thoughts on the right side opposed to the left side, mostly look right). When I make a cause and effect (important) conclusion to all the points I have been making (as if just coming to the conclusion until right there and then) I look directly down at my sternum and it feels like I am physically pulling something up from within on the return when I pull my eyes up again to make eye contact. Since I don't see too many INTPs in the real world its hard to cooroborate.

 

[Totenkindly]

As an INTP and recently watched a video of myself giving a semi impromptu speech public; the following was noticed: think there is a tendency on my type to avoid direct eye contact for very long; tend to look upward in a V shaped pattern (different types of thoughts on the right side opposed to the left side, mostly look right). When I make a cause and effect (important) conclusion to all the points I have been making (as if just coming to the conclusion until right there and then) I look directly down at my sternum and it feels like I am physically pulling something up from within on the return when I pull my eyes up again to make eye contact. Since I don't see too many INTPs in the real world its hard to cooroborate.

it's all well-and-good, but it also assumes that this behavior never changes. It ignores the typical human desire to communicate and connect to convey information.

Thus, maybe your INTP at one extreme will follow this pattern; however, if they've had to learn to interact with others in more personable ways, now they're going to start mixing styles. This "tainting" of the baseline sample is impossible to avoid, "life" does it to everyone.

So now you can't be sure whether you are seeing someone reflecting 'true to type' behavior or an amalgam of various styles that have been effective for them, you can't know it without knowing their type first, etc. I think when I was young I didn't make eye contact, but eventually I did it pretty incessantly, because I learned (1) it lets people know I'm listening and (2) it helps convey that I do care about what they are saying... which in turn encourages them to reach out to or listen to me.

I think INTPs out of the box might show some of these patterns you describe. Basically, it's just an attempt to avoid personalizing the conversation and shows a lack of "speaker skills," the INTP is avoiding eye contact, the eyes here are not being used as communication tools but as mere reflections of the internal process and specifically AVOIDING other people's eyes in order to avoid the anxiety of not knowing how to connect if that eye contact is made. That seems typical theoretically of INTP behavior out of the box, but the more well-rounded INTPs I know have more personable approaches and aren't afraid of eye-contact.

 

[sculpting]

About the only thing I can think of in terms of a "type-related" thing I've had outside validation on (i.e., I recognize I do it and never said anything, and independently a lot of other people have brought it up with me) is when I go into one of my "seeing into another reality" stares... where I would be staring at someone in a conversation and they would get a little freaked out because they felt I was staring through them, or staring at them but seeing something else.

I do this too. Typically in a conversation I will go into Ne space briefly by looking upwards, however extended Ne time on my own is me just dazing out.

As for NLP-they will have you ask the person a series of questions-like "remember last christmas" then you see where their eyes go. However my ISFJ for instance didn't match the NLP patterns, even though I did. I almost feel like my crazy guesses here may hold more water than the NLP guesses.

For me, regardless of this fact the eyes move around naturally a person nevertheless soon is able to notice a pattern when they train themselves to watch.

This is the first time have heard the correlation/ typewatching to MBTI but what I hear above runs mostly true to myself.

As an INTP and recently watched a video of myself giving a semi impromptu speech public; the following was noticed: think there is a tendency on my type to avoid direct eye contact for very long; tend to look upward in a V shaped pattern (different types of thoughts on the right side opposed to the left side, mostly look right). When I make a cause and effect (important) conclusion to all the points I have been making (as if just coming to the conclusion until right there and then) I look directly down at my sternum and it feels like I am physically pulling something up from within on the return when I pull my eyes up again to make eye contact. Since I don't see too many INTPs in the real world its hard to cooroborate.

I realized I didnt really talk about ISTPs and INTPs. I have only known two ISTPs-one I was married to and the other I worked with for a long time. Both had the Ti stare but it is pretty brutal to be on the receiving end. They find everyone in the world to be incompetent and have no problem letting their facial expressions illustrate this. It's almost like the Ti stare has focal points.

For TiSe it is grounded very painfully on the "target" of attention. ISTPs do not want you in their space unless you have earned it. They drive you out with Ti. For NeTi, it is focused, a bit piercing but not painful. For TiNe it is hard to define. It is like the focal point of the stare is inside their heads. They look at you, but not really at you.

I work with a ton of INTPs. Very little eye contact, but not Fi downwards glances, just not actually looking at you mostly. I'll pay more attention and see if I can find a trend.

I shall go INTP hunting

I usually look directly in someones eyes (and nothing else, I wouldn't even notice if someone was naked, except if they had grow eyes on their genitals, but that only happens very rarely). Sometimes I stare in the distance, mostly when I'm thinking. I find it really tiresome when someone always looks into my eyes as well. Two weeks ago I had to go to the bank, and there was this woman who I had to talk to to change my bank account. But that woman was looking in my eyes as well and so, after talking to her for fifteen minutes, my eyes started to hurt. I hope I'll never meet my lost twin.

Try taking two ENTPs out to dinner. It is very interesting to watch. The just watch each other. My entp friend said it wasnt worth the effort to try and play a "game" to interact, as both understand they are playing a game. I had no idea how little eye contact I made until I started watching the entps never stop making eye contact when they talk.

Let me know about that genital eye correlation. (perhaps I have eyes on my boobs...it might explain the ENTP boys a bit better)

 

[epp]

This definitely doesn't apply to me... I physically control my eye movements at all times because I feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable making eye contact with people.

no, this particular "eye chart" may not apply to you, but I'm sure you use something similar, too. Ne-monster was talking about NLP eye accessing cues... which is quite a specific thing.

it doesn't mean that a very Ne-person (such as me) is walking around, looking upwards all the time. these are actually glances - and they might be very brief - that a person makes when talking or expressing themselves, no matter where he or she looks generally. it also takes some practice to learn how to "read" it as some people barely move their eyes at all...

and, again, these eye movements the OP was talking about, are involuntary and subconscious and actually IMPOSSIBLE to control. believe me, I've personally tried and many NLP practitioners have tried, I'm quite sure most people who have learned the "eye chart" have tried...

just videotape yourself once when being interviewed and you'll see for yourself

 

[wolfy]

Fi-(NLP kinesthetic)-downward glances, little direct eye contact


Ni-drooling, not really in the room with the rest of us. Some Ni doms will actually have whole conversations with you while they stare off into space.

Te-dominating, almost glare like. My enfps will actually pair this with a crinkled brow. INTJs will alternate the Ni drool look with the very direct Te glare. It isnt just studying-like Ti-it is almost confrontational.

Se and Si-I dont quite have a fix on these two yet. Most of my Si users use Te looks and most of my Se users use Fe or Te looks. [/B]

I do the Fi and Ni looks a bit. I do a ton of scanning though, more than these. I only do Te when I'm in a bad mood.

 

[epp]

So in Neurolinguistic programming there is a theory that different eye movements correspond to different types of information retrieval-verbal, visual or Kinesthetic, either imagined or remembered.

Here is a site that talks about it in more depth:
NLP Eye Accessing Cues

After I started paying attention to this I realized that the Jungian cognitive functions seem to match very closely and repeatedly to eye movements.

Ne-(NLP visual retrieval)-upwards at angles

Ti-Very direct, piercing, observing, even staring albeit the INTPs are a little spacier in their stares.

Fi-(NLP kinesthetic)-downward glances, little direct eye contact

Fe-in terts like EXTPs, they do lots of side glances-verbal retrieval
Fe-in doms and auxs, they seem to do a lot of softly directing looks paired with soft controlled smiles, and some side glancing

Ni-drooling, not really in the room with the rest of us. Some Ni doms will actually have whole conversations with you while they stare off into space.

Te-dominating, almost glare like. My enfps will actually pair this with a crinkled brow. INTJs will alternate the Ni drool look with the very direct Te glare. It isnt just studying-like Ti-it is almost confrontational.

Se and Si-I dont quite have a fix on these two yet. Most of my Si users use Te looks and most of my Se users use Fe or Te looks.

Anyways this is all I use anymore to type people. It is always right so far. More so than anything else-clothing, speech, face or whatever. But the dynamic aspect seems important-you have to watch the fluctuations between looks while they talk.

Typically the eyes will alternate between two different types of looks-Ne, Fi or Ne, Te for me, but sometimes combining into NeFi as a combination. In the second post I will put my pics trying to illustrate this for me.

Can you guys help me confirm or deny? Can you watch a couple of folks around you and see if this seems true?

as for the OP. I really can't give a good opinion as I don't really understand some functions, e.g. Se and Si are something I just don't "get" what they are about. yes, I've read the theory, but I still don't "get" them...

but I too have found quite a strong correlation (not scientific, though, just my observation) between visuals and strong (!) Ns. this seems to be a VERY obvious connection indeed. then again, I, being a strong visual and an extreme N (both Ne and Ni) myself, just tend to notice them more than other types

I would be a little careful with using the "eye chart" directly for typing, though. there is a reason they remind NLPers to "calibrate" every single person... all people are different and they think in different ways, they may also use their functions in so many ways we can't even imagine.

but generally, I find it to be a good observation, seems to make sense, and I will try and test it. thanks!

 

[Spamtar]

I think INTPs out of the box might show some of these patterns you describe. Basically, it's just an attempt to avoid personalizing the conversation and shows a lack of "speaker skills," the INTP is avoiding eye contact, the eyes here are not being used as communication tools but as mere reflections of the internal process and specifically AVOIDING other people's eyes in order to avoid the anxiety of not knowing how to connect if that eye contact is made. That seems typical theoretically of INTP behavior out of the box, but the more well-rounded INTPs I know have more personable approaches and aren't afraid of eye-contact.

Perhaps in one on one.

And clearly I wouldn't to be one to ask others to emulate what I do.

At the same time doing what others do does not suit me either. Have attempted approaches of unnaturally maintaining eye contact. What I have found, with me, being more true to my own style makes what I say more genuine. Especially when I have done the research and know what I am talking about. My eye cues help me drive my brain and thus I try and go with them instead of crossing them for the sake of social norms. It feels like soul surfing. The fact that I seem comfortable with "not eyeballing" my audience seems to even make them now feel comfortable as I speak my mind and heart.

Also knowing eye cues are essentially involuntary by NLP training in fact make me even more protective of showing my eyes, particularly in an adversarial matter (unless those situations which are so adversarial where the eye of the tiger is required)