Typewatching via eye movements

[sculpting]

INTP 1-Very little direct eye contact-mostly looking away in the distance during the convo, with sporadic direct eye contact. Not looking at the floor Fi style, instead more off in the distance over my shoulder or at other objects in the room.

Some direct Ti stares, and occasional upwards Ne glances when he is thinking of something. Oddly when I asked him about his new baby, I got some direct eye contact and smiles.

INTP2-Almost exclusive direct eye contact Ti style. Some what abstracted and not as intent as the ENTP version though. Occasional upwards glances. once or twice broken eye contact to look at other things in the room-almost like he needed time to ponder the thought-however when he did this he did look down and off for just a second.

I'll go find some more!

 

[entropie]

What function is boob retrival ? I mean like those guys who always look onto the wrong places ? Not that I know one just curious

 

[paperoceans]

What if you don't have eyes.

 

[NewEra]

My eye movements seem to vary depending on many factors - who the person is, what they're telling me / what I'm telling them, how alert I am, etc.

What if you don't have eyes.

Then you obviously don't make eye movements.

 

[paperoceans]

Then you obviously don't make eye movements.

Impossible!

 

[EcK]

You didn't think about the fact that people control their eye movements.
I mine tend to go from up to down all the time so I sort of have to look people in the eyes to maintain contact if i'm theorizing or whatever. (and never side looks as i'm low on audio)

also, i don't have an ounce of fi. just saying, you make it sound like 'looking down' is almost a function, when noting a seeming correlation would be what you should have started with

 

[sculpting]

What function is boob retrival ? I mean like those guys who always look onto the wrong places ? Not that I know one just curious

ewwww.... I knew one of these guys. He was a biochem prof and I had to interview with him for an NIH grant. He kept asking me questions and starring at my chest. I hardly have any boobs. He would do double takes in the hallway to turn and check out a girl's butt. I'd rather not specify a type....

You didn't think about the fact that people control their eye movements.
I mine tend to go from up to down all the time so I sort of have to look people in the eyes to maintain contact if i'm theorizing or whatever. (and never side looks as i'm low on audio)

also, i don't have an ounce of fi. just saying, you make it sound like 'looking down' is almost a function, when noting a seeming correlation would be what you should have started with

Good point at the end. NLP says looking off to the lower left is kinesthetic. However the first time I saw someone do this a lot it turned out to be an ENFP guy. He would do it at the end of questions or just randomly-like you had shared some deep secret. You were in the "same club" or on the same side. It was way creepy. However all the Fi users-even ISTJs and INTJs will break eye contact and look downish when they use Fi. It's all correlations?

Maybe when you look down you are like the INTPs a bit-breaking eye contact to ponder. Less down and more just "away". I dunno, I need more INTPs to study. Maybe I need to find a few young entps too...

As for controlling eye movements, I have tried this.

Te is very easy for me and makes a big difference with other Te users. Once I figured it out it is simple.

The BEST was when my very best ENTP in the universe stopped by my office. He is not a friend, but is an exceptionally good leader who I only see occasionally. I wanted to talk to him about a very political situation but I knew I could not be Te blunt. I also could not be Fi emo. Either would put him on guard.

Instead I relaxed and looked him directly in the eye with the best Ti look I could do. Then I put on the best Fe calm explanation I could and removed all traces of emo, just was very calm and detached. Pointed out the "confusion".

I have never seen an ENTP change masks in mid stream. It was fascinating. I became someone different. He became someone different. However it took about four seconds for him to transition. He actually broke eye contact, looked out my window, pondered, then resumed eye contact. Afterwords all the issues I was having disappeared.

 

[BlueScreen]

I'm not sure it is that simple, but the habits can definitely correlate with types. Cognitively we have certain information we are aiming for, and there should be an optimum way of retrieving it which we'd move toward. I know you'd have a lot of trouble getting an Ne dom to walk into a room, make eye contact with you, and look nowhere else, unless you held so much interest that the world and the rest of the scene was irrelevant. My eyes normally go eye contact enough that the person feels comfortable, but not enough that they feel uncomfortable. In the looks away, and apparent staring at nothing or thinking, I take in everything else. I don't feel comfortable not knowing my surroundings in detail.

 

[epp]

You didn't think about the fact that people control their eye movements.

no, the eye accessing cues (or "eye chart", as I said before) are involuntary. no, really, guys, it's not about where the person is watching most of the time, these are specific eye movements they talk about in NLP!

I mean - you can mimic them somewhat but a) very good and constant (!!!) self-control is needed, b) unless you have a REALLY good and constant (!!!) self-control it's actually clearly visible if you are being genuine or not.

I'm sorry I doubt you people, but really - that good self-control is rare and usually takes a lot of practice.

NLP says looking off to the lower left is kinesthetic. However the first time I saw someone do this a lot it turned out to be an ENFP guy. He would do it at the end of questions or just randomly-like you had shared some deep secret. You were in the "same club" or on the same side. It was way creepy. However all the Fi users-even ISTJs and INTJs will break eye contact and look downish when they use Fi. It's all correlations?

lower left (left of the speaker) is "inner dialogue", i.e. when a person is thinking to him/herself. everybody uses that, especially when trying to explain something. thumb rule is not to talk to the person when he/she is looking down left as he or she wouldn't hear you anyway.

also, in VAK - feelings, i.e. emotions are somewhat the same as kinesthetics, and kinesthetic eye cues should be lower right (right if the speaker, that is), so there might be some correlation with Fi (I remind you, I don't know much about the functions).

then again as much as I understand - F (be it Fi or Fe) is not only about emotions in MBTI, but also about values and things like that, so I'm not very sure that part would fall under the "kinesthetics" in VAK system.

 

[EcK]

stop assuming i didn't study NLP : \ (to everybody). I like, pretty much studied 'everything' i mean, I just don't brag about it.

And ofc one can control eye movements to an extent, if only by controlling thoughts patterns in situation. (framing if you will) But I was mostly refering to the 'looking away' part, not to the vak related eye movements. I for example tend to move my eyes from up to down pretty fast which doesn't come in handy when trying to look people in the eyes too, but I know what sort of message looking 'away' sends so I manage that part consciously (especially when its not because i'm shy but because i can't freaking look up, down, up, stare at them then up again without looking twichy)

 

[NewEra]

I'm not sure it is that simple, but the habits can definitely correlate with types. Cognitively we have certain information we are aiming for, and there should be an optimum way of retrieving it which we'd move toward. I know you'd have a lot of trouble getting an Ne dom to walk into a room, make eye contact with you, and look nowhere else, unless you held so much interest that the world and the rest of the scene was irrelevant. My eyes normally go eye contact enough that the person feels comfortable, but not enough that they feel uncomfortable. In the looks away, and apparent staring at nothing or thinking, I take in everything else. I don't feel comfortable not knowing my surroundings in detail.

Sounds like Se to me.

 

[sculpting]

I'm not sure it is that simple, but the habits can definitely correlate with types. Cognitively we have certain information we are aiming for, and there should be an optimum way of retrieving it which we'd move toward. I know you'd have a lot of trouble getting an Ne dom to walk into a room, make eye contact with you, and look nowhere else, unless you held so much interest that the world and the rest of the scene was irrelevant. My eyes normally go eye contact enough that the person feels comfortable, but not enough that they feel uncomfortable. In the looks away, and apparent staring at nothing or thinking, I take in everything else. I don't feel comfortable not knowing my surroundings in detail.

Are you sure it isnt taking it in, but instead forming connections? I am utterly unaware of my surroundings however I still make make connections between the pieces of my surroundings.

Sounds like Se to me.

Tell us more!!! I guess I could go bug my ISTJs but I would love to have your perspective on what Se feels like from the inside out.


Also thanks you epp and eck, my sweet three letter entps, for correcting the flaws of my nlp knowledge. I am very, very ignorant in this area...

 

[sculpting]

More INTPs:

INTP-my Internal med DO.

Many breaks in eye contact as he looks away, then brief eye contact as he explains things. His eyes almost roll away-like other people have an invisible barrier he doesnt want to penetrate so he look st the edges but then averts so he doesnt pass a certain point. He is actually very nice and one of the best doctors I have been to as he listens well. Maybe once an upward look.

INTP2
Software programmer-Not good friends with this guy, just a coworker-mostly no eye contact-again off in another direction. Several upward-angle Ne glances during the conversation. However-as he made specific points-he would look very directly at me to drive the points home. But these would be brief looks and then he would break eye contact again.

An interesting ESTP
This guys is young-30-and very, very good. He is quite clever, very polished and will seem to see the big picture much faster than my other ESTPs. I couldnt figure out why he seemed "better" until I found out he spent high school in a military school where half the kids were there on probation. You learn quick there or get stabbed. Anyways he does the typical Fe sideways glances and the direct Ti glances all the time. But every so often he will glance upwards Ne style for a few seconds-I havent seen any of my other ESTPs do this. He broke my rule, which is fun as it means I still have stuff to figure out.

 

[BlueScreen]

I'm coming round to this. I was walking along the other day and became aware that I look left as a reset like oh no I'm static thing, and look up when thinking/scanning. Never realised there was that much order or repetition to it. I thought I just got bored and looked everywhere.

 

[sculpting]

muhahahahaha!!!!
I shall conquer the world with eye movements.... or something like that...

Do your clouds in your avatar have some strange man on them now? Perhaps the little man living on sol from before?

 

[BlueScreen]

Yeh . I need to pull out my old avatar.

On the early post about taking in surroundings. I take them in as a whole, but I also go very fine details. I'll notice they are wearing a watch with an inscription on it. Or they left something in a strange place. I think any details that make the scene interesting or help fill in the picture.

 

[Spamtar]

keep up the good work happy p. always an interesting read. admire your observation on character study.

 

[RaptorWizard]

seemingly nonsensical.

explain how you type people based on their eye movements AND verify, independently of your own perspective, that you've correctly typed them.

Finding empirical evidence to back up personality type would require nothing short of a full in-depth mental analysis.

This is something eye movements do not communicate in complete clarity.

If you really wish to tap into somebody's mind, you would likely have to either scan their brain, or engage in an intellectual discussion that reveals the dynamics behinds someone's thought processing and reasoning.

And then there's the part you added about including your own perspective. Indeed it seems to be that we find our own perspectives were misguided, as the truth is often counter-intuitive.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Finding empirical evidence to back up personality type would require nothing short of a full in-depth mental analysis.

This is something eye movements do not communicate in complete clarity.

If you really wish to tap into somebody's mind, you would likely have to either scan their brain, or engage in an intellectual discussion that reveals the dynamics behinds someone's thought processing and reasoning.

And then there's the part you added about including your own perspective. Indeed it seems to be that we find our own perspectives were misguided, as the truth is often counter-intuitive.

Thanks for the reply, I just wanted confirmation that typewatching by eye and other similar threads exist solely for the purpose of mental masturbation.

 

[Infinite Bubble]

I've read a thread about this on INTP forum, had similar ideas to you, but a few differences regarding indicators of the individual functions.