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  1. #21
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Huh.

    Well, I wrote the quiz and got a 50/50 split on the J/P thing, so that's why my last letter has a nice little 'x'. I didn't really think of the mechanics overmuch, and I intentionally did not research the meanings at length beforehand, because I did not want to project any bias onto the results.

    The quiz questions were quite simple everyday things, and didn't hint at a deeper meaning.
    The quizzes are garbage. They're akin to those little "What kind of music do you like?" quizzes; they don't actually prove anything because they depend entirely on self-report. They only test how you see yourself, not how you actually are.

    The best they can do is point you in the right direction so that you can do research on your own and discover for yourself which archetype fits you best.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    If we go back to starting with just four functions (S, N, T, F), and that an ego uses them in an inner or outer orientation, choosing in an alternating fashion which to use where. It becomes clear that Xe and Xi are not the totally separate animals that we have made them out to be. So it is hypothetically possible for someone to be close in J/P. We do normally choose one and reject the other, but still, however it develops, they can be close where it is hard to tell.
    I completely disagree with this. It may be hard to tell in children who have not yet formed clear functional preferences, but once most people reach adulthood their value systems are very clearly defined and not really that difficult to discern. Xi and Xe are very, very opposed because they disagree completely on where the source of the decision should be--internally from the self, or externally from the environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    -irrelevant whining-
    Who the hell invited you into this thread, anyway?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #22
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Missed the point, though not so badly as to warrant not getting a response (like Ragingkatsuki, lol.)
    I'm clueless as to how this or anything else in your post has any relevance to what I said. I feel like you're addressing a caricature of me, one based on the mentality that you think someone must have if they disagree with you. You talk about how I seem to focus on "surface appearances," but I never suggested anything like that. When I said that someone can contain contradictions and that reality is in fact rife with such contradictions, I literally meant that. By extension, there's every reason to allow the possibility that someone could prefer the introverted and extroverted forms of a function. The MBTI ignores that possibility, of course, but the MBTI does not reign supreme over human psychology. The MBTI is just a theory, a mental construct, a rough outline. All it does is sort people into arbitrary categories that are at best rough generalizations. At worst they're an excuse to supplant the infinite variation of reality with a cold, theoretical simplicity.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  3. #23
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    INTJs can have concern for social harmony without using Fe. Some INTJs that I know consider this to be an inherently ethical part of how one should behave, and so the root motivation here is Fi.

    ENFPs can have objective conceptions of truth via Fi+Te. They can reason out what they find to be internally ethical and combine it with what they see works to complete meaningful external goals, and there you have it. Lacking Ti does not a compulsive liar make.

    My point is that whenever you think you're seeing someone use a function outside the main four, if you really sit and talk to that person about the deeper fundamental reasons for it, if that person is willing to be open with you then you can always find a better explanation for it based on that person's four traditional functions. I think that most people see the surface behavior and neglect to consider the true underlying motivation; for example:

    "Wow I've seen lots of Fe users do that, and now this INFP is doing it--he must be using Fe!" Well, no, he's not. Fe implies a completely different set of values and end causes for behavior and belief systems, and furthermore many of these blatantly contradict Fi's values. I don't buy that he's using both; you just need to dig deeper into that person to see what's really going on. I believe your interpretation here is flawed because it defines functions according to observable surface behaviors instead of internal motivations.
    Alright, I see what you're saying, and that makes perfect sense. I was trying though, to get at the idea that it might not just be surface behavior ie that as a member of a social community an INTJ would use Fe itself, in a limited way (that is, not in a way determined by Fi ethics or Te practicality)...however I think I'm stepping outside of MBTI interpretation of Fe as a function and talking about basic human psychology that I see as falling under Fe. Depending on whether or not you think that's a valid way to go, my interpretation would be flawed or not.

    The black and white part is the functional combination, not the particular order of the functions in any given combination. Each person uses one Ji attitude, one Je, one Pi and one Pe--but never two of the same cognitive process, and never two different directions of the same process. (e.g., you might see someone who uses Ni+Fi as the top two functions, but never Ni+Si or Ni+Ne.)

    Now as for the orders of those functions--some people have them in different orders than what MBTI suggests, but it's my contention that these people virtually always suffer from personality imbalances and could generally improve their results in life by working to balance out their priorities so that their top two functions contain an E, an I, a P and a J. This is most conducive to self-actualization, balance and happiness.

    On a side note, it's absolutely, completely, extraordinarily ridiculous--no, in fact, more than that--it's a sheer ludicrous absurdity that you would even begin to suggest that I ever exaggerate or use hyperbole. That's by far the most outrageous thing I've ever heard.
    Thanks for clarifying. It's helpful to see a more cohesive picture of your interpretation.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  4. #24
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Don't think I can agree with the OP or for that matter anyones conclusions yet but do find the issue quiet fascinating. For example one answer on a MBTI would separate an INTP from and INTJ who on the whole are often very different. The first time I tested I was closest on the P/J boarder and this issue crossed my mind often particularly how being a P makes one Ne, Ti and Fe. Ulimately the test is just a tool and it is a self evaluation which I know am clearly an INTP yet feel my closest cousin is the INTJ.
    Good issue, yet don't see persuasive conclusions or analysis from either side of the debate.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #25
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    LOL---This IS a joke, right?

    I'm pretty sure it is, but just wanted to check.
    Yeah, I saw that too. That's why he's both cunning and charming.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #26
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Well, couldn't we say this about all four dichotomies?

    I do agree that people have core patterns that they are more inclined to, but they may ignore them. Some people (adults included) are still finding themselves. Meaning, they don't know what they are and where they want to settle yet, if at all, so they change up often, according to their moods, or the according to the moon.

    They resist being boxed in, because being boxed in seems frightening to them.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    Who the hell invited you into this thread, anyway?
    You seem to be under the misguided impression this is your personal thread.
    It is everyone's thread.

    Just because you have no ability to synthesize functions which seemingly oppose,
    doesn't mean others have the same problem as you.

    Frankly, I don't know how you call yourself ENTP.
    You will do anything, and I do mean anything, to keep from expanding the number of possible types.
    Which means you defy the very type you claim to be.
    Oh, no, there can't be ANY other possibilities than what MBTI suggests.

    Compared to you, ESTJs are anarchists.

    Maybe one day you might actually understand how two things which seemingly oppose,
    can actually be true at the same time.

    Until then, live in the dark.
    You seem perfectly content, being there.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tyrant's Avatar
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    MBTI is a piece of crap.
    INTP | IEI - INFp

  9. #29
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You seem to be under the misguided impression this is your personal thread.
    It is everyone's thread.

    Just because you have no ability to synthesize functions which seemingly oppose,
    doesn't mean others have the same problem as you.

    Frankly, I don't know how you call yourself ENTP.
    You will do anything, and I do mean anything, to keep from expanding the number of possible types.
    Which means you defy the very type you claim to be.
    Oh, no, there can't be ANY other possibilities than what MBTI suggests.

    Compared to you, ESTJs are anarchists.

    Maybe one day you might actually understand how two things which seemingly oppose,
    can actually be true at the same time.

    Until then, live in the dark.
    You seem perfectly content, being there.
    I like this post!

    This is kind of off topic, but...

    sim, don't get mad at me, I absolutely think you're brilliant, but you scare me with how strongly you adhere to typological theory.

    You don't believe in "God" but you sure seem to *believe* in the MBTI, don't hate me, just an observation.

    I think you are very much so an ENTP, and I think many NTs for some reason get really into MBTI and use it as more than just a tool but rather as a way to cohesively explain human nature.

    Yet, one must understand that human nature and psychology extends and transcends way outside the MBTI box.

    Don't be mean to me, I'm pms-ing.

    -SS

    *scared of confrontation and hides*

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #30
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrant View Post
    MBTI is a piece of crap.
    Interesting, why do you like this forum, then?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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